Anti-c MAPs are part of the problem

[G@yWad69]

I don't know if it's that simple for anyone; I think much of the horror at MAPs accumulate from tabloids and sensationalist TV shows rather than some innate sense that sexualizing children is wrong.

I completely agree. The way a MAP is often portrayed makes them come across as dirty, fat, ugly, old, and sick, and I think that’s what really triggers disgust. The concern about sexualization relates to what this almost-human being might do when seeing those images.

By monstrous I was thinking of people like John Wayne Gacy. There have been people who are attracted to minors who were monsters. They're not representative of the majority of us or even a significant minority of us, but they're the kind of people who the public think of when they think "pedophile".

Maybe—but taking it lightly—the best thing that could happen in the MAP environment is that some attractive people get arrested, so someone could say: Oh, well, if I were in their place, maybe I wouldn’t have minded.

Sadly true.

Those guys werent monsters, they were human, evil and vile humans that deserve punishment, but still human. If you are from the species Homo Sapien, you are human. I dont support this idea of “good people human, bad people non human” in the slightest. Espcially since literally every human on earth thinks they are a good person, so literally everyone is a “monster” to someone else since morality is subjective(which highlights my previous point of people thinking that hating AMSC is intrinsic to humanity, when the age of consent used to be SEVEN in America and masturbating literal infants was a common childrearing hack, and dont even get me started on the modern day countries and tribes without an aoc, so this whole “we hate hate AMSC because its objectively morally wrong and we will always hate it and always have hated it and always will hate it” is just copium that denies reality and this so called “inherent disgust of adult on child sex thats hard wired into the average human” is easily proven false by all the pre puberty child fuckery that was fully normalized and legalized in many countries, even the “fancy” ones in the past, and is still legalized/normalized in places today, morallity is subjective and constantly changing, it WILL change because society DOES change, unless a nuclear war stops eliminates the human race).Even those vigilantes that burn pedos alive and torture and murder pedos are human, evil and vile humans that deserve punishment, but still human.

The best of people are human and the worst of people are human. Being a disgusting vile psycopath is just as much a part of humanity as being a wholesome loving gentle caretaker, to divorce the grossest parts of humanity from the rest of society is a disingenuous lie that ironically, allows evil to proliferate, its also ironic for a pedo to say this, considering that we are all degumanized and considered subhuman by nature of our very existance. Yes John Gayce was a human, that is a fact, not a monster, but an evil demented and dangerous human. Being human doesnt mean “you cant do anything wrong and should be forgiven for everything”, being human means you belong to the same group as every other great ape that walks on two legs, and pretending that evil can only exist in a fringe part of subhuman monsters makes it easier for evil to hide in normal life, since no one will view their friends and family as subhuman monsters, and evil people wont view themselves as subhuman monsters. It also allows for minorities to loose human rights. Pedos are seen as non human/monsters, so antis, non rightfully so, think we dont deserve human rights.

And yes I am that hyper woke annoying leftist progressive radical(im not actually a leftists or hyper woke, but thinking that offenders, even the most vile of offenders or sex offenders, still deserve basic human rights and shouldnt be tortured or holocausted is more radical than most “”“progressive”””” “””“leftsist”””, who are all for human rights until the human in question is a sex offender or honestly any human who commits any offense more severe than smoking weed, then they are as blood thirsty and regressive as the average conservative they hypocritically bash on for the same reasons, and all their “progressive” and “leftist” values get instantly thrown out the window for the fleeting pleasure of joining the violent mob, which is exactly why they are loosing, since they are exposing themselves as the hypocrites they are. Literally every argument a progrsive leftist claims to stand for, they will immediately backtrack if pedophillia gets brought up, even if it directly relates to the issue and the backtracking contradicts the very point they claim to argue for, which is why conservatives keep bringing up pedophillia in regards to leftists, not becauses its a “smear” and the conservatives are just being meany stinky poopoo heads, but because it proves that they are hypocrites who care more about social hysteria and mob violence than the social progress and unity they claim to fight for and will instantly abandon all their core values for the sake of their pedo hating pissing contest, not to get too political, lol) that thinks even the most vile and even people deserve basic human rights, even my enemies, the pedo hunters who kidnap and beat or rape pedos to death and torture us deserve basic human rights, like a right to a fair trial and a right to food and water, right to free speech, right to freedom from torture, etc. Of course I will not be crying my eyes out if a vigillante who murders pedos gets his rights violated, but unlike my enemies, I wont argue that they are subhuman monsters that deserve to be tortured and expiremented or particpate in their violations or vote for bills trying to remove their rights(which is more than what I can say for antis/vigillantes, who either already do these things or advocate for it, I cant tell you how many times I have seen people advocating for a hitler style holocaust of pedos or for sex offenders to be experimented on as lab rats or for pedos to get their limbs chopped off or other sadistic shit, and for the simple crime of underaged handjobs or titty groping mind you, yet I am supposed to be the evil monster? Ok). I actually think these vile and evil people like John Gacy or the Vigillantes that murder and torture pedos are EXTREMELY HUMAN, perfect examples of humans, not monsters, because humans, like all the other animal species, are made up of grossly violent and predatory assholes. These violent assholes just show that at the end of the day, homo sapiens are just apes that can run around on two legs, really smart apes, but still apes.

[G@yWad69]

I don't know if it's that simple for anyone; I think much of the horror at MAPs accumulate from tabloids and sensationalist TV shows rather than some innate sense that sexualizing children is wrong.

I completely agree. The way a MAP is often portrayed makes them come across as dirty, fat, ugly, old, and sick, and I think that’s what really triggers disgust. The concern about sexualization relates to what this almost-human being might do when seeing those images.


Maybe—but taking it lightly—the best thing that could happen in the MAP environment is that some attractive people get arrested, so someone could say: Oh, well, if I were in their place, maybe I wouldn’t have minded.

Yes, but won't MAPs arguing against this rhetoric might actually reinforce it?

Do you mean the one about pornography? Most likely yes, which is why I wouldn’t approach this critique with a MAP flag, but rather from the perspective of youth rights.

Yes, it is easy to say “a child didnt consent to that man and will be traumatized and was “groomed” into enjoying it” when the man in question is 5’0 300 pound fat greasy neckbeard with stringy balding hair in his late 50s and the “victim” is an attractive underaged girl, it is ALOT harder to force the bs abuse/non consent/grooming narritive when it is an attractive young adult woman and an underaged boy, thats part of the reason why male “csa” “victims” not only go less reported, but expiernce far less social shame and sociogenic suffering and why female pedos are protrayed “slightly” better and havent historically been held to the same legal or social standards as male pedos, not because of “ThE PaTrIaRcHy”, or “FeMaLe PrIvIlLeGe”, like both femminazis and MRA claim, but because trying to claim that a middle school boy will receive “LIFE LONG DAMAGING SCARRING TRAUMA” from motorboarding a hot blonde MILF in her mid twenties juicy tits or that he was “forced” or “groomed” into the sexual expiernces or into enjoying it highlights just how retarted and stupid the whole “trauma” and “grooming” narrative is, so its far easier to just ignore female MAPs and male “victims”since they contradict the “evil predator” “innocent victim” and “all male bad”, “all female victim” narrative too much.

Women arent fat or ugly or old (or at least cant be portrayed that way without contradicting the “motherly, good with kids, beautiful, and pure” stereotype that the femminazis have set up, the same femminazis that set up the “innocent girl scarred for life by evil man penis” sterotype, which is why you will always hear femminazis complaining about male “victims” not being paid attention to but ONLY talking about female “victims” and getting downright upset when male “victims” are brought up, because “motherly and pure” female pedos contradict their “violent and patriarchal” male pedo sterotype, and slutty boys wearing “I MILFS” T-shirts and bragging about hot moms contradicts their “terrified of older men” girls. Yes they can claim that AMSC happens more, or simply gets reported more, with girls, but they literally IGNORE the existance of male “victims” and female MAPs, because the AAM boys and female MAPs contradict their “man bad sex bad female victim” narrative and they KNOW it ) and the underaged boys either dont play the “innocent scarred trauma victim” at all or dont play it as well as the girls do.

There is also the fact that male pedos are more common than female pedos and girls have more AMSC(or report more AMSC, since I highly doubt girls participate in more “csa” than boys, Espcially since boys are less safe guarded by girls by antis. I have a theory, that if the virginty and sexual purity of underaged boys was valued even half as much as underaged girls by antis then we would notice more boys reporting and being “traumatized” by their sexual purity being damaged, but even then I doubt boys would feel compelled to report it or be disturbed enough by a good fucking to be “traumatized” as girls would.

Seriously though, a girls “innocence”, aka, virginity and sexual “purity” is fetishized and held on a pedastal, even in “woke” societys like the west, the females sexuality, girl or woman, is often a hot talking point, both in the past and in the present, while male sexuality is either seen as natural or seen as dangerous, to the females sexuality of course, so it makes complete sense that if you are raised to think that an important part of your personhood is how sexually “pure” and “innocent” you are that any corruption from vile evil stinky penises to your ultra important virginity ans holy hymen would bring about great shame, both internal and external, and leave an easy target to blame on all your corresponding sexual shame(male pedos and males in general), but if your sexuality is seen as natural or even embraced(boys and non pedo men), then sexual deviancy and the overall destruction of sexual “purity”(which doesnt even naturally exist, kids are horny, thats just nature) would seen either neutrally or positively.

And I find it extremely funny and ironic how close femminazis are to the point, complaining about how pedos aee“fetishizing” “innocence” and “sexual purity” and that shames girls and women into trauma, but THEY are the ones fetishizing innocence and sexual purity, pedos DO NOT GIVE A SINGLE FUCK about this “sexual innocence” or obsesses over its maintenance, even anti C pedos still get evil patriarchal innocence destroying boners to underaged girls, so despite all their yapping, on a subconscious and biological level, by the sole virtue of being pedos, they are literally HARDWIRED not to give a fuck about this “sexual innocence” crap.

Its fucking crazy that we are accused of fetishizing and obsessing over “innocence” and sexual “purity”(which doesnt even exist naturally and has to be constantly sustained by laws and the moral hysteria, strange how all kids are “naturally” innocent according to antis, but this so called “innocence” is so easily lost or destroyed, even by the kids themselves, on their own or with other kids, that maintaining it is a constant uphill battle that is somehow NEVER enough. For something that is, according to antis, so natural and intrinsic in the human child, it sure takes ALOT of social and legal rules and participation to maintain, and somehow, only exists in rich and privileged countries. Something natural that only exists in the rich and privilleged? Lol. And of course they will say that it us, the pedos, “destroying” the “innocence” we literally dont even care about, let alone enough to purposefully destroy, because apparently 1% of the population can “destroy” 22% of the population, ig through our mass pedo mind control grooming superpowers) , but it is the antis, not the pedos, who are willing to commit literal torture and murder over the “destruction” from their precious innocent virgin Mary white lamb underaged girl sucking dick, sorry, “LoOsInG hEr InNoCeNCe”.

It is the antis and femminazis, not us, who think a girl loosing her sexual purity is a fate worse than death that will TrAuMaTiZE her for life and mortally wound her, that corrupting her sexual purity is a an act so evil, so monstrous, so cruel, that it is worse than the worst forms of a abuse, worse forms of torture, worst forms of murder, that can only be brought to justice with torture or murder, which pale in comparasion to a preteen sucking dick, sorry, being RUINED FOREVER! WOEE, WOEEEE. Yet WE are the ones who are obssessed with sexual purity and innocence?? We are NOT the ones willing to commit literal murder over this so called “innocence”, we are not the ones locking people in prison for decades over it, putting tracking devices on minors and mandating id cards for “innocence destroying” websites and forcing abstinence on them and shaming them to suicide for being slutty and locking them on the SO regristry for “mutual rape”. The antis are the ones who yap and fret obsessively over innocence and its “destruction”, WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?! The projection of antis is fascinating and will be studied in future history books. They care more about the sex lives and “innocence” of kiddies than we do, yet WE are the pedos??

In the past, girls having sex was bad because it made her a sinful slut, now girls having sex is bad because it makes her a traumatized victim. I have a dream, that one day, girls will be able to have sloppy freaky sex and not be seen as sinners or victims, but as normal human beings with a sex drive just like every other human on earth, one day, one day.

I have seen videos of MAP women getting caught with underaged boys and all the comments are “lucky boy” “I feel so bad for the boy, I wish I could be the underaged boy instead and go through the pain of hot older blondes instead of him” or “every mans dream” or “we all wanted this as kids” or “this isnt real rape”(it isnt), or “I wish this wouldve happened to me” or “I did this as a kid and LOVED it”. This would NEVER happen if the pedo was a man, even if he was decently attractive, and this wouldnt happen if the kid was a girl. So I do think that a big way towards MAP acceptance is

1.Female MAPs
2.Male “csa” “victims”, particularly “victims” of female MAPs, but even of male pedos will highlight how stupid it is for leftists to claim that pedastry has nothing to do with gayness or homosexuality or querness or whatever the fuck its called
3.Underaged pedos/hebes

All three of these group contradict the “evil patriarchal ugly violent old man” and “innocenct sexually pure attractive girl” sterotype, and thus, drive giant spears into the heart of the csa industrial complex

[Jim Burton]

This is just ragebaiting at this point, but whatever, this back and forth doesn't seem very productive.

Claiming "ragebait" is just a way of blaming your anger on me. I'm merely responding to your assertions.

[Jim Burton]

Non pedophiles cant even justify pedophiles being human beings, so this doesnt mean much.

Most people are non-pedophiles. What they think, and what they can get away with doesn't just mean a lot, in fact, it's critical.

And my point was, that if non-pedophiles struggle to win the argument on teen youth rights, it will be twice as hard for pedophiles to argue for child youth rights.

Pedophiles will be dismissed immediately, with further calls for incarceration, sectioning and in some extreme cases, forced medical experimentation, so that society "doesn't repeat its mistakes" by allowing them to exist. This will be presented as the "liberal, enlightened" alternative to extermination, by "reasonable" lawmakers and shrinks who use selective sampling to demonstrate how "most people" just want pedophiles dead. This will all be decided by presumptive consent, as well - i.e. lawmakers' understanding of "what people should think" because they know anyone with a dissenting opinion would be too scared to speak out.

The age of consent used to be 7, and I will remind you that this is a time period where childrwn where pre pubscent until well into their teens, not post pubscent, not pubsecent, but PRE PUBERTAL.

It is outright false to state they were pre pubertal "well into their teens", and no evidence exists for this. There exists some inconclusive evidence for younger ages of menarche as time went on, but the effect is perhaps 1-3 years (i.e. ages 13-14 as opposed to 11-12 nowadays).

so acting like its somehow impossible for sexual contact between pupubertal kids and adults to be legal/normalized when it has been legal/normal for a good portion of alot of society, and extremely recently too, AND is still legal/normalized in places today makes no sense.

No one in this thread is doing this, ditto for the rest of your long post, which I'm sure makes some points.

[G@yWad69]

Non pedophiles cant even justify pedophiles being human beings, so this doesnt mean much.

Most people are non-pedophiles. What they think, and what they can get away with doesn't just mean a lot, in fact, it's critical.

And my point was, that if non-pedophiles struggle to win the argument on teen youth rights, it will be twice as hard for pedophiles to argue for child youth rights.

So? Just because something is hard doesn't mean we shouldnt fight for it? Getting gay men to even be seen as humans was a struggle, let alone legalizing gay sex and gay marrige, doesnt mean the gays shouldnt have fought for it.

Pedophiles will be dismissed immediately, with further calls for incarceration, sectioning and in some extreme cases, forced medical experimentation, so that society "doesn't repeat its mistakes" by allowing them to exist.

Why are you acting as if that doesnt already happen? Pedos are already dismissed immediately. Thats why we are on Mu and not twitter. Society already calls for further incarceration and forced medical experimentation on us. Society already doesnt “allow” us to exist, we exist because we were forced out of our mothers cozy wombs, even though society doesnt “allow” us we will still exist and will keep existing because women keep giving birth.

This will be presented as the "liberal, enlightened" alternative to extermination, by "reasonable" lawmakers and shrinks who use selective sampling to demonstrate how "most people" just want pedophiles dead.

That is your dangerous mistake, that you assume any of this hysteria and paranoia is reasonable in the first place.

This will all be decided by presumptive consent, as well - i.e. lawmakers' understanding of "what people should think" because they know anyone with a dissenting opinion would be too scared to speak out.

The age of consent used to be 7, and I will remind you that this is a time period where childrwn where pre pubscent until well into their teens, not post pubscent, not pubsecent, but PRE PUBERTAL.

It is outright false to state they were pre pubertal "well into their teens", and no evidence exists for this.

The average age for menarche in the 1800s was 16/17. It is a well known fact that puberty started significantly later in the 1800s(when the age of consent was 7-10). That is a well known fact that you can easily search up.

There exists some inconclusive evidence for younger ages of menarche as time went on, but the effect is perhaps 1-3 years (i.e. ages 13-14 as opposed to 11-12 nowadays).

I am talking about the 1800s, as that is the time period with ages of consent as low as 7 in places like the United States. The average to start your period was your late teens, once again, that is a easily proven fact.

so acting like its somehow impossible for sexual contact between pupubertal kids and adults to be legal/normalized when it has been legal/normal for a good portion of alot of society, and extremely recently too, AND is still legal/normalized in places today makes no sense.

No one in this thread is doing this, ditto for the rest of your long post, which I'm sure makes some points.

[Jim Burton]

[OK, thanks, mods for improving the flow of the post]

But as for menarche and telarche in girls, the answer is just no. At no place and at no time in recorded human history has it been usual for girls to wait until their late teen years to have a period or have their breasts bud. These would be extreme outliers, or maybe some writer from the Victorian era made a claim based off of modesty or deflowering, but it would have been false and ahistorical. I am also very skeptical of the sources claiming girls in the 19th century had an average age of menarche in their mid-teens (i.e around 15-17), as these lack proper medical verification and span from a time when preoccupation with bodies was much less.

[PorcelainLark]

Those guys werent monsters, they were human, evil and vile humans that deserve punishment, but still human. If you are from the species Homo Sapien, you are human. I dont support this idea of “good people human, bad people non human” in the slightest.

Well, I don't really see the point in punishment, but I do think people like that should be kept apart from the rest of society. I don't agree with the idea that certain actions nullify your human rights.

...so literally everyone is a “monster” to someone else since morality is subjective...

I disagree. I think, in a strange way, by trying to see monstrous people as equal to others, you dehumanize the people who see them as monsters. For example, if you tried to tell a survivor of the Holocaust to see the humanity of a concentration camp guard.

...so this whole “we hate hate AMSC because its objectively morally wrong and we will always hate it and always have hated it and always will hate it” is just copium that denies reality...

I agree, however, I there are examples of things which are seen as bad across times times and cultures. Sometimes MAPs do those bad things, and those things are what we're unfairly known for.

...all the pre puberty child fuckery that was fully normalized and legalized in many countries, even the “fancy” ones in the past, and is still legalized/normalized in places today...

I'd like to know about some examples. I've seen a lot of evidence for hepephilic relationships historically, but sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children is very rare from what I've seen.

...morallity is subjective and constantly changing, it WILL change because society DOES change...

I don't think that's enough to say we shouldn't think of Ted Bundy or Pol Pot as monsters. In practical terms there are people you'll want to avoid, I don't think that will change, just the overlap of people you should avoid and MAPs is much slimmer than people perceive it to be.

The best of people are human and the worst of people are human. Being a disgusting vile psycopath is just as much a part of humanity as being a wholesome loving gentle caretaker, to divorce the grossest parts of humanity from the rest of society is a disingenuous lie that ironically, allows evil to proliferate, its also ironic for a pedo to say this, considering that we are all degumanized and considered subhuman by nature of our very existance. Yes John Gayce was a human, that is a fact, not a monster, but an evil demented and dangerous human.

I agree up to the point where you say being a monster and being a human are mutually exclusive.

I actually think these vile and evil people like John Gacy or the Vigillantes that murder and torture pedos are EXTREMELY HUMAN, perfect examples of humans, not monsters, because humans, like all the other animal species, are made up of grossly violent and predatory assholes. These violent assholes just show that at the end of the day, homo sapiens are just apes that can run around on two legs, really smart apes, but still apes.

I'm not as pessimistic about human nature. I think there are particular contexts in which the worst aspects of human nature rise to the surface, but it doesn't always have to be that way.

[G@yWad69]

[OK, thanks, mods for improving the flow of the post]

But as for menarche and telarche in girls, the answer is just no. At no place and at no time in recorded human history has it been usual for girls to wait until their late teen years to have a period or have their breasts bud. These would be extreme outliers, or maybe some writer from the Victorian era made a claim based off of modesty or deflowering, but it would have been false and ahistorical. I am also very skeptical of the sources claiming girls in the 19th century had an average age of menarche in their mid-teens (i.e around 15-17), as these lack proper medical verification and span from a time when preoccupation with bodies was much less.

https://epibiostat.ucsf.edu/news/what-d ... tion-girls

“ Between the 1890s and the 1950s, the average age at menarche – the medical term for first menstruation – fell from 17 to 12.”

[Jim Burton]

It's bullshit.

What happened between those years, is medical knowledge about girls bodies was popularized via sex education, and the taboo on disclosing details about girls' bodies was lifted by the Women's Rights movement.

You likely have some reduction of the age of menarche due to better diet spanning from industrialization and intensification of agriculture - but there is no reliable evidence the average age at menarche was 17. Not in any place, or any time, has this been reliably established, and it flies in the face of ethnological accounts.

Another reason we know this myth is BS, is that prior to what we now know as "Victorian" social purity norms, and modern Western Medicine, the self-reported age of menarche was always between roughly 13 and 15. So you are in effect proposing that the age of menarche actually increased by 2 or 3 years during a period with no corresponding reduction in life expectancy or living standards?

Menarche has always been something girls experience before their teens, or in their early/mid teens.

[G@yWad69]

Those guys werent monsters, they were human, evil and vile humans that deserve punishment, but still human. If you are from the species Homo Sapien, you are human. I dont support this idea of “good people human, bad people non human” in the slightest.

Well, I don't really see the point in punishment, but I do think people like that should be kept apart from the rest of society. I don't agree with the idea that certain actions nullify your human rights.

...so literally everyone is a “monster” to someone else since morality is subjective...

I disagree. I think, in a strange way, by trying to see monstrous people as equal to others, you dehumanize the people who see them as monsters. For example, if you tried to tell a survivor of the Holocaust to see the humanity of a concentration camp guard.

...so this whole “we hate hate AMSC because its objectively morally wrong and we will always hate it and always have hated it and always will hate it” is just copium that denies reality...

I agree, however, I there are examples of things which are seen as bad across times times and cultures. Sometimes MAPs do those bad things, and those things are what we're unfairly known for.

...all the pre puberty child fuckery that was fully normalized and legalized in many countries, even the “fancy” ones in the past, and is still legalized/normalized in places today...

I'd like to know about some examples. I've seen a lot of evidence for hepephilic relationships historically, but sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children is very rare from what I've seen.

...morallity is subjective and constantly changing, it WILL change because society DOES change...

I don't think that's enough to say we shouldn't think of Ted Bundy or Pol Pot as monsters. In practical terms there are people you'll want to avoid, I don't think that will change, just the overlap of people you should avoid and MAPs is much slimmer than people perceive it to be.

The best of people are human and the worst of people are human. Being a disgusting vile psycopath is just as much a part of humanity as being a wholesome loving gentle caretaker, to divorce the grossest parts of humanity from the rest of society is a disingenuous lie that ironically, allows evil to proliferate, its also ironic for a pedo to say this, considering that we are all degumanized and considered subhuman by nature of our very existance. Yes John Gayce was a human, that is a fact, not a monster, but an evil demented and dangerous human.

I agree up to the point where you say being a monster and being a human are mutually exclusive.

I actually think these vile and evil people like John Gacy or the Vigillantes that murder and torture pedos are EXTREMELY HUMAN, perfect examples of humans, not monsters, because humans, like all the other animal species, are made up of grossly violent and predatory assholes. These violent assholes just show that at the end of the day, homo sapiens are just apes that can run around on two legs, really smart apes, but still apes.

I'm not as pessimistic about human nature. I think there are particular contexts in which the worst aspects of human nature rise to the surface, but it doesn't always have to be that way.

“I disagree. I think, in a strange way, by trying to see monstrous people as equal to others, you dehumanize the people who see them as monsters. For example, if you tried to tell a survivor of the Holocaust to see the humanity of a concentration camp guard.”

But they ARE human? That is an objective fact. Disliking or hating someone doesnt change biology. I love butterflies and hate mosquitoes, that doesnt mean that mosquitoes arent bugs. I love chocolate cake and hate liver, doesnt mean liver isnt food. You can be evil and violent and still be human, because that is literally a part of humanity. I dont know why we have to pretend that humanity is this pure and nonviolent group who never do anything bad ever and that anyone who does isnt human. The holocaust survivor doesnt have to see the Nazi as human, but that doesnt change that the Nazi is objectively a human. The definition of a human is “ a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens or other (extinct) species of the genus Homo ; a human being.” not “super nice people who do nothing wrong ever and are perfect and amazing”.

“I'd like to know about some examples. I've seen a lot of evidence for hepephilic relationships historically, but sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children is very rare from what I've seen.”

There are too many examples to list, but my favorite example is the age of consent being as low as 7 in the United states, with the average age of consent being 10-12. And this was during a time period where menarche didnt happen until 17 on average. Puberty starts two years before menarche, which means children would start puberty at 15 on average, which means the average child 14 and under living in the United States during this time was PRE PUBSECENT. And what do you know? The age of consent was not only below the age of menarche, but below the age of puberty, and was even as low as SEVEN. Despite how drastically low puberty rates have dropped, even seven years olds in modern US today are typically prepubescent. But there are honestly so many examples, from mothers masturbating infants and toddlers as a common childrearing hack to a literal prophet of a major religion marrying a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9, which would be impossible if pedophillia was not legal or normalized, or Brooke Shields famous star position in the notorious playboy magazine at the ripe age of 10. If pedophillic actions and attractions were so rare then antis wouldnt have to fight so hard, hell, they wouldnt be fighting at all. There wouldnt even need to be sex laws, or at least such strict ones, for prepuberty children if basically no one was intrested in them. Pedophiles are estimated to make up 1-3% of the population. Which may sound very low and very rare. But gays only make up 2% of the population. And pedophillia is only clinically defined for the PREFRENCE for prepuberty kids, if you take in all the “pedocurious” adults with a secondary or tertiary attraction to prepuberty kids, those numbers would rise dramatically.


“I don't think that's enough to say we shouldn't think of Ted Bundy or Pol Pot as monsters. In practical terms there are people you'll want to avoid, I don't think that will change, just the overlap of people you should avoid and MAPs is much slimmer than people perceive it to be.”

But they ARE human? Are they a member of the genus homo sapien? Then they are human, and you are just disagreeing with basic biology. Obviously we should avoid humans like that, that doesnt make them non human, it just makes them dangerous humans, which is my entire point. Humans can be dangerous, and pretending otherwise is honestly even more dangerous