Hello, Zarkle here. I have new new strong evidence for my Disgust Theory that directly shows non-western non-colonial anti pedo biases existed historically. Both prohibitting prepubescent sex with adults (very common) and scolding children for masturbating (less common but not rare), this theme appears consistent across cultures that have no contact. I am citing the 1950s research of Clellan S. Ford and Frank A. Beach and their book Patterns of sexual behavior to make my case. The same conservative right wing attitudes exist independent of colonialism because they are partially evolutionairly influenced.
TLDR if you don't want to read all this crap. More evidence for my Disgust Theory (the claim that anti pedophila and anti LGBT has evolutionary roots) emerged but its not as clear cut
Throughout most of human history
0)Adults were having sex and playing traditional family roles, even if they varied with polygamy (usually male with multiple wives)
1)Teenage sex and teenage marriage was always favored. Puberty is almost always the historical line drawn
2)Child sex was only allowed between children playing with themselves, like kids masturbating themselves outdoors
3)Beastality was a mixed bag, sometimes legal but viewed as gross. People got beat up for doing it.
4)Marriage, commitment, sexual loyalty to a spouse and conservative rituals around sex were very common
5)Most cultures tolerated some aspects of homosexuality but very few were liberal enough to view it as a life long choice to avoid traditional lifestlyes, many cultures expected homosexuals to behave like women
6)It seems like very few cultures allowed adults to have sex with prepubescents. The closest thing are adolsecents fooling around with little girls and parents masturbating their little kids as play. And there is no evidence of kissing and cuddling and adoring little girls without having sex with them (what I want to do)
7)Having sex in private also seems to be a universal norm
8)Three societies Kwoma and Sanpoil and The Rwala Bedouins have death penalty for homosexuality and one has the dealth penalty for prepubescent pedophilia, the Ashanti's death penaltied adult to prepubescent child sex acts independent of colonialism
While exceptions exist we see signs of universal taboos towards adult child pedophilia, child masturbation, and incest and premartial sex and sex in public. These taboos clearly exist outside of the west and colonial influence, showing part of the problem we are dealing with is not colonial influence but rather something hardwired in nature that makes people conservative on sexuality and culture makes it vary in degree and practice. For example so many cultures have unique rules on sex such as many cultures having a rule that after a spouse dies no one in the family is allowed to have sex. Or if a wife's husband dies she must go a year without sex. These are examples of conservative social norms that exist in non-western cultures that don't exist in the west. The point I am trying to argue is that social conservatism on sexual norms is ingrained into nature and different cultures express this bio-conservatism differently.
Rather it is
1)Christian puritan villagers in 1735 disgusted over sex outside of marriage
2)Feminist of 21st century today digusted by 17 and 22 having sex,
3)Or a African village digusted by a woman having sex a few months after her husband die
4) Another african village being upset that teenagers were practicing having sex with each other to prepare for fertile being mothers and fathers
Its the same biological conservative neurocircuits expressed by the wild card of culture. If we really want a sexually libertine world where we can love children and u18 teens and more, we must go beyond the cultural norms and look at the evolutionary programmed aspects to figure out why sexuality is always bound to cultural norms instead of just being free.
Below are messages from Beach and Ford's 1950s research book "Patterns of sexual behavior" that support Disgust Theory's core claims that anti pedophilia is more then just cononial driver pure cultural. Remember nature and culture are a two way street interacting with each other.
Paper is here to cite everything I have
https://ia802901.us.archive.org/35/item ... r_text.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_of_Sexual_Behavior
Page 115 (evidence sex outside of marriage is rejected outside of European colonial cultures, though it leans towards women only)
Note, Liasons are sexual relationships without commitment
Societies Disapproving Liaisons. ‘Sixty-one per cent of the 139 societies in our sample for whom evidenceis available forbid a mated woman to engage in extra-mateship liaisons. In some societies the mated man is similarly restricted, although the great majority of these peoples are more concerned with the behavior of the mated woman not the man.
Page 173 (starting at puberty 12+ and teen years, girls are expected to have non pregnating sex until they mature further and once they mature as adults they are expected to get married have kids
a number of human societies girls are permitted free sexual activity
from puberty until marriage,
Page 180-181 (Children are prohibitted from masturbation in a minority of societies, (some having clear non-colonial influnce)
Such adult attitudes to childhood sexually may prevent youngsters' from engaging in sexual practices in the presence of their elders, but whether they successfully suppress sexual activity in secret is another matter. There is evidence that in some of these societies children do engage in a certain amount of sexual behavior despite strong adult disapproval. In Haiti little boys and girls privately experiment in sexual activity from
early childhood untilpuberty. Manus children masturbate, but always in solitude and surrounded by shame. When they are alone in the bush Kwoma
boys scrape the penis with soft cushioned leaves' And in Truk, children play at intercourse at an early age, although their parents will beat them if
they are caught. In Trufcese society children do sometimes observe their elders Engaging in sexual activities at night. Apinaye boys and girls masturbate frequently even diougb such play is punished when ever it happens to be observed, and despite the fact that at a ceremony which is conducted when they are half grown tlieir genitalia are examined and the children are flogged if there appears to be evidence of masturbation. In the case of boys, this “evidence'' is described as "retractibility of the prepuce." But the validity of such criteria is questionable. Actually, there are no known physical stigmata that constitute reliable evidence of habitual masturbation as far as the male is concerned.
R. L. Diddnson has long held that
In Africa, Ashanti boys are told by their fathers at an early age not to masturbate or engage in any sexual play. In New Guinea, Kwoma boys are constantly warned not to finger their genitals; if a woman sees a boy with an erection she will beat his penis with a stick, and boys soon learn to refrain from touching their genitals even while urinating. Kwoma girls also are told not to finger their genitals but are not punished for so doing. The Cuna specifically forbid their children to engage in either homosexual or heterosexual play; and youngsters among the Chri cahua are whipped if they are detected playing sex games. Most of these restrictive societies maintain a public conspiracy against the acquisition of any sexual knowledge by children. Adults avoid mentioning matters of sexual significance in their presence, and make every attempt to keep them in total ignorance
of the reproductive process, /unong the natives of the western Carolines sex is never discussed before children, especially girls. Cuna children remain ignorant of sexual mattere (as far as adult instruction is concerned) until the last stages of the marriage ceremony. They are not
even allowed to watch animals give birth. Cbagga children are told that babies come out of the forest.
In a number of these societies particular pains are taken to pre- vent young children from accidentally observing sexual behavior-
In some instances, as among the Mumgin of Australia, boys are removed from the dwelling to the boys’ house or bachelors when they are four or five years old; this is done for the specific purpose of preventing them from witnessing sexual behavior. The Kwoma husband and wife are always careful to wait until the children are asleep before indulging in sexual intercourse
page 181 (fear of prepubescent vaginal tissue damage)
For the most part these peoples seem particularly concerned with the pre-
pubescent girl, believing that intercourse before the menardbe may
be injurious to her. Girls of the east central Carolines are strictly
forbidden intercourse before puberty, but
after that they enjoy almost complete sexual freedom. After menarche
Is taboo of pedophilia colonial influence or not? By Grok
Grok 4.1 (that fact checks for a minute) to decide if these cultures rejection of pedophila were pre or post colonial, he thinks most of them if not all were precolonial but only got stronger under colonialism.
Question to AI: Were the Apinaye people's colonialy influenced to make anti pedo decisions
Answer:No
The Apinaye (Gê-speaking Amazonian group in Brazil) had norms rooted in pre-colonial kinship and rituals, documented in ethnographies like Nimuendajú's (1939) before significant colonial impact. Their restrictions on prepubescent acts were indigenous, tied to social structure, not European influence.
Question to AI: Africa (general) colonial influence to make anti pedo decisions
Answer:No for most pre-colonial norms
African societies like those referenced (e.g., Ashanti, Chagga) had taboos predating colonialism, rooted in indigenous beliefs. Colonialism influenced some post-19th century, but core norms were independent.
Question to AI: Were Ashanti influenced by colonialism to make anti pedo decisions?
Answer: No
Ashanti puberty rites (Bragoro) and taboos (e.g., death for prepubescent sex) were rooted in pre-1896 Akan ancestor worship and lineage purity, from the Ashanti Empire era. Colonialism reinforced but did not originate them.
Question: Was New Guinea influenced to make anti pedo decisions?
Answer: No for most
Many PNG groups had pre-colonial restrictions on prepubescent acts tied to indigenous rites; colonial influence (German/British/Japanese) post-19th century, but origins were local.
Direct evidence of the death penalty for sex with prepubescents in Ashanti precolonial Africa
PAGE 25 on this book
https://ugspace.ug.edu.gh/server/api/co ... df/content
Sarpong (1977:12) also emphasizes this in his work. He explained that, invariably
the Ashanti when pressed to give reasons would give examples of many people who
suffered from their having violated the puberty rite performances.
This religious element was what provided potency for sanctions which upheld high
state of morality in puberty rites in the former days. Rattray (1969:74) indicates that,
intercourse before puberty among the Ashanti was considered an offence for which the
entire community must suffer. This according to him it was punishable by death or
expulsion. Unchastity was considered a great disaster in the life of the candidate hence
both parents and children take great care to protect virginity. The performers of the rites
for that matter had devised of some means to test the virginity of the girls.
Even though many traditional Africans concerning puberty rites put this high
premium on religion, they are also considered merely as social events in some traditions.
Amediume (1988:89-96) studied how the Nobi in Nigeria prepared their girls for
adulthood without puberty rites. What they did without any celebration was that, in the
attempt to prevent pre-marital pregnancy, there were various taboos and rituals
surrounding a girl in her maidenhood.
Question to AI: were the Kwoma influenced by colonialism to make anti pedo decisions?
Answer:No
Kwoma (PNG) norms were indigenous, from traditional initiation/kinship, documented pre-heavy colonial impact.
Question to AI: Were the Cuna people influenced by colonialism to make anti pedo decision?
Answer:No
Cuna (Kuna/Guna, Panama) norms rooted in pre-colonial Austronesian traditions; resisted Spanish influence, maintaining autonomy.
Question to AI: Were the Chagga people influenced by colonialism to make anti pedo decision?
Answer:No
Chagga (Tanzania) rites from pre-colonial Bantu traditions; colonial influence post-1880s, but origins independent.
Question to AI: Were the The Murngin of Australia influenced by colonialism to make anti pedo decision?
Answer: No
Murngin (Yolngu) norms from pre-1788 Aboriginal traditions; colonial influence post-contact, but taboos indigenous to dreamtime/kinship systems.
Question to AI: Were Haitians influenced by Colonialism, to make anti pedo decision?
Answer: Yes
Pre-colonial taboos existed but Haitian norms were heavily shaped by French/Spanish colonization (1492-1804), blending African/indigenous with Christian morals; pre-colonial Taino/African taboos existed but were transformed.
Question to AI: Were Truk people influenced by colonialism to make anti pedo decision?
Answer: Partial influence by colonialism but core taboos preexisted
Truk (Chuuk, Micronesia) norms from pre-colonial Austronesian traditions; colonial (Spanish/German/Japanese/US from 1521) introduced Christian influences, but core taboos on prepubescent acts were indigenous.
Page 113 Regarding incest again
All societies have extended incest prohibitions beyond the nuclear family unit. The range and direction of such ramification vary from society to society. In some cultures the prohibition extends only to secondary relatives (e.g., fathers sister, mother’s sister, sister’s daughter, brother’s daughter); in addition our society and some others include a few other relives such as first cousins.
The majority groups on whom this information is available) have much more extended Incest prohibitions that include a far greater number of relatives. In some cultures the interpretation of incest Is so broad as to exclude as potential sex partners half the available population.
These facts will be especially important to bear in mind when considering the societies that at first appear to place relatively few restrictions on sexual liaisons outside of mateship.
Page 129 and 130 (anti Homosexuality and death penalty towards it independent of colonialism) Sanpoil, Kwoma and The Rwala Bedouins tribes impose the death penalty homosexuality and call it disgusting
Other Socities That Disapproveof homosexuality
In twenty-eight of the seventy-six societies for which information
'is available, homosexual activities on the part of adults are reported
to be totally absent, rare, or carried on only in secrecy. It is to be
expected, however, that the estimate would nm considerably below
actual incidence, since this form of sexual expression is condemned
in these societies. In some societies it is dear that tendencies toward
homosexual behavior are powerfully inhibited during childhood.
Cuna children are prohibited from indulging in homosexual play.
If Trukese boys masturbate in the presence of other members of
their sex they ore whipped. Chiricahua children who are observed
to engage in any hetero- or homosexual play are severely punished,
and- the Sanpoil thrash soundly any child who exhibits behavior
that is at all suggestive of homosexual tendencies.
Among all the societies in which adult homosexual activities are
said .to be very rare, definite and specific social pressure is directed
against such behavior. The penalties range from the fighter sanction
of ridicule to the severe threat of death. The Mbundu make fun of
all homosexual practice, although it is said to occur secretly among
both men and women. Homosexual play among Alorese children is
frowned upon althoughit may not be punished, but adult homo-sexuality is strongly discouraged. One ethnographer has described an eighteen-year-old Goa;iro boy who insisted upon dressing like a girl and working with the women. This individual was tolerated by the women, but men treated him with derision. Overt homosexuality was not observed among the Goajiro. Homosexuality in both sexes occurs in Haiti, particularly in urban areas, but it is socially con- demned. hiasculine and feminine inversions are known to take place in rare instances among the Manus.
Homosexuality known to exist in Bali is that connected wth prostitution.
The Kwoma consider homosexual sodomy
(anal intercourse) un-natural and revolting. The Rwala Bedouins are so strongly opposed
to homosexuality that they sentence male or female offenders to death
Page 130-131 Societies that approve of some forms of homosexuality
Societies other than our own for which information is available,* homosexual activities of one sort or
another are considered normal and sodally acceptable for certain
members of the community. The most common form of institution-
alized homosexuality is that of the berdache or transvestite. berdache
is a male who dresses like a woman, performs womens
tasks, and adopts some aspects of the feminine role in sexual be-
havior with mde partners. Less frequently a woman dresses like a
man and seeks to adopt the male sex role.
Among the Koniag, some male children reared from infancy
to occupy the female role. They leam women’s crafts, wear women’s
ornaments, and become skilled in wifely duties. When he is mature
such a male becomes a wife of one of the more important members
of the community. He is usually credited with magical powers and
accorded a great deal of respect
Page 147 Zoophilia being frowned upon and leading to divorce/breakups, also children from African tribes who f*ck animals are shamed and beaten
The Tnikese consider animal contacts an inadequate source
of satisfaction, but instances apparently occur. Some women put
coconut meat in their vaginas and then entice a dog to lick it out
This practice is grounds for divorce if a husband delects his wife
in the act
Trukese-men at one time used dogs as sexual objects.
Among the Ts^vana of Africa, young boys assigned to the cattle posts
frequently engage in intercourse with the animals. But this practice
is regarded as silly by the older boys and they may beat any youth-
ful comrade who is caught in the act Young Riffian boys somize
sheep asses in the hope of developing themselves sexually and of mak-
ing the penis grow. If it occurred in grown men, however, such behavior would be ridiculed.
Page 185 -187 (Societies that oppose children openly masturbating also oppose sex outside of marriage more often)
And, as we have noted, most other
sodeties that discourage infantile and childhood sex play also at-
tempt to control premarital experimentation in sexual matters on the
part of adolescents or young adults. Although this attitude is characteristic in America, the strength of
condemnation varies somewhat from one soda] group to another.
However, regardJess of the prohibitions against it, premarita} sama)
behavior does occur in a fairly large proportion of the population.
It does not necessarily involve actual copulation. Landis and his
co-workers report that 59 per cent of the married women whom they
questioned had indulged inextensive heterosexual play without
coitus prior to marriage. Forty-two per cent of the unmarried women
in this study admitted the occurrence of sex play.
According to Kinsey, Pomeroy, and Martin, more than 80 per cent
of American males engage in petting before they are twenty years
In some societies the only recognized sign of sexual transgression
on the part of young people is premarital pregnancy. Among such
page 188 -189 Adults largely tolerate children playing sexual with each other but only a few societies have sex with or adults masturbating children
Permissive Societies. Adults in a large number of societies take
a completely tolerant and permissive attitude toward sex expression
in childhood.’ Under such conditions youngsters engage in a certain
amount of sexual play in public. The fingering of the child’s oisu
genitals follows exploratory movements of the hands which contact
the various parts of the body. If adults do not attempt to discourage
such behavior, fingering the genitals becomes an established habit
of occasional occurrence. As the child grows old enough
to walk about and play with others, he tends to extend the range and to
increase the variety of sexual activities. Handling the
genitals of others of the same or opposite sex occurs frequently under condl*
tions of free sex play. Additional forms of sexual activity on the part of young children sometimes
include oral genital contacts and
attempted copulation with a sex partner.
In a few permissive societies adults participate actively in the
sexual stimulation of infants and yoimg children. Hopi and SMeao
parents masturbate their youngsters frequently. And
in these societies self-masturbation passes practically unnoticed during early
childhood, adults taking a tolerant and permissive attitude toward
all sexual behavior at least until the age of puberty. Among the
Kazak,* adults who are playing with small children, especially boys,
excite the yoimg one’s genitals by rubbing and playing with them.
In. this society autogenilal stimulatiou on the part of young children
is accepted as a normal practice. Mothers in Alorese society occa-
sionally fondle the genitials of their infant while nursing it. During
early childhood Alorese boys masturbate freely and occasionally they
imitate intercourse with a little girL as the children grow older,
however, such sexual activity is frowned upon and during late childhood
such behavior is forbidden to bodi boy and girl. Actually, however,
they continue their sexual behavior, but in secret.
Among the Pukapukans of Fdyneshi where parents simply ignore
the sexual activities of young children, boys and girls masturbate
freely and openly in public. Among the Nama Hottentot no secret is
made of autogenital stimulation in early childhood. Young Trobriand
diUdren engage in a variety of sexual activities. In the absence of
adult control, typical forms of amusement for Trobriand girls and
boys include manual and oral stimulation of the genitals and sunu-
lated coitus. Young Seniang children publicly simulate adult copu-
lation without being reproved; older boys masturbate freely and
play sexual games wth little girls, but the boys are warned not to
copulate on die grounds that diis behavior would weaken then.
In the societies where they are permitted to do so, children gradu-
ally increase their sexual activities both as they approach pubert)’
and during adolescence. There are, indeed, some societies in wiid
enforcement of the prevailing incest regulations
is the only majorrestriction on sexual activity among adolescents.
Among the Chewa of Africa parents believe that children
should begin to exercise themselves sexually early in life or they will never
beget offspring. Older children build little huts some distance from
the village, and there, with the complete approval of their pareatJ.
boys and girls play at being husband and v^e. Such trial matings
may extend well into adolescence,
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