This is a thread about my criticisms of the United States National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's public communications. Also known as NCMEC, pronounced "Neck Meck" I am not saying they should be abolished or that everything they do is useless or that they are the enemy in a us v. them battle. No, I argue they do have a purpose in protecting kids and identifying children in harm, and we should not engage them negatively. But I am sharply acccusing NCMEC of extremely biased reporting and fear mongering with public communications. To making all child lovers appear as sadist in the public's mind. The same criticism also applies to Tim Tebow's highly biased inaccurate report to US congress that I will disect later.
So if you know me from around here you know I have a scientific doctrine that I want to go viral in MAP circles called (Disgust Theory) in which I make the case that I strongly disagree that anti pedophilia is exclusive to Western puritan influenced culture. I discussed many times in previous threads. I strongly believe the main reason pedophiles are extremely hated and despised are parental protection instincts wild animals have, and the same primitive neurocircuits mother animals used to defend their offspring from predatory animals got repurposed in humans to oppose pedophilia. Even though not all cultures have it evolution favored that probability due to how strong parental protection is in the animal kingdom. Evolution shows 100s of millions of years of parent animals defending their young at all cost. In my example 50,000 years ago it was momma defending a cave child in the Savannah of Africa from a hungry leopard or lion. 50,000 years later in the 21st century its paranoid right wing parents reading about qanon adjacent crap on right wing social media about sadistic child torture crimes, and satanic pedo cannibals. All because the same neuro circuits to protect children got repurposed in modern society, the predatory animals went away but the brain circuits to detect them did not, and western culture taps into child protection instincts stronger then any other culture by chance. The bliss inducing motivation part of my Disgust theory doctrine is that Western culture is capable of logic and reason over powering brutish instincts, and that eventually society will realize extreme hatred of pedophiles is just a instinct and will reason its way out of it and embrace adult child love in the future.
But knowing this has evolutionary bedrock does not mean we should not explore cultural affects that make it better or worse. Like the communications of NCMEC broadcasting to the public in a extremely biased way to make child lovers appear as sadistic monsters.
The topic I am focusing on is the extremely small percentage of brutal child porn being preceived as the only type of child porn in the public's imagination. Most of society thinks of child porn is synonomous with torture dungeons, rape and brutal abuse in a qanon fever dream due to NCMEC and law enforcement's irresponsible biased public communications. They only publicly communicate about the worst like hurtcore and the criminal 764 network coercively sextorting teenagers. In this thread I will shed light on non abusive child porn like the reality of commonly circulated swimwear shop bikini catalogs, social media videos of kids, dance wear class kids twerking, as well as teenagers voluntary safely sharing nudes and junior idol agencies all that many times meet the definition of legally defined CSAM. Category C in the UK, while pointing out that the US intentionally has no child porn rating system tier list, which leads to everyone assuming the worst. And that US law enforcement benefits from the public being ignore and assuming the worst.
I am making the case that if the United States had a CSAM category sysem, like my just invented one
Child porn severity rating system by zarkle
Tier 1: Children being raped violently and sadistically abused as well as abusive sextortion
Tier 2: Prepubescent children being non violently (debately) raped by fathers and step fathers and others (includes anal, oral, vaginal)
Tier 3: Teenagers sexting, teenagers voluntary having sex, and prepubescents posing in sexual ways possibly with adults photographing them
Tier 4: Little girls in dance class, children from swimwear clothing webpages, little girls dancing and twerking in their bedroom to fav music
It would be shown that tier 3-4 vastly outnumber tier 1 and largely outnumber tier 2 showing that almost all pedophiles are not sadist and that they have known ethical boundaries, such as my stance of pro kiss and cuddle contact with prepubescents and personal belief to never have sex with children until at least tanner stage four of puberty around 13 when they are TEENAGERS.
The evidence is there that the softcore categories 3 and 4 would vastly outnumber Tier 1 (the worst) and even largely outnumber tier 2 (the debatable sex contact with prepubescents) This would challenge the horror narrative NCMEC promotes. and yes I understand that children in the worst conditions need to be investigated over safe ones, but that does not excuse NCMEC from extremely biased reporting. The only reason they can get away with this is because being extremely biased against pedophiles is allowed.
Most new child porn (mid 2010s and up) legally defined CSAM of prepubescent girls being produced is self generated Tier 4 (least concern borderline). It is not children being sadistically raped in dungeons like the public imagines or even having sex (debatable rape) with men. Despite the worst images being circulated widely on niche dakrnet corners they are rarely newly produced and always detected by photoDNA so the public never sees it. Where as "tier 4" least concern slips the filters because its so non serious. NCMEC intentionally uses this to conflate numbers. Once again Tier 4 is little girls in their bedrooms filming themselves dancing (twerking), little girls at the beach in swimwear, little girls at dance class.
Obviously law enforcement is going to pay attention to the worst stuff, but it is totally irresponsible for them to brainwash the public into thinking the worst is the most common. The very small pool of human trafficking and violent rape against prepubescents (which is very rare) or individual parents/step parents non violently raping kids (which is semi common) is outnumbered vastly by the tame. As ChatGPT says in the 3 issue seperated topic
Issue 1 : ChatGPT discusses borderline CSAM being shared widly and going unnoticed
CSAM and borderline content on the “open internet / social media universe”
What many investigators informally refer to as “self generated non contact CSAM/kids being stupid online” falls into this category.
Examples include:
1)minors filming themselves dancing in revealing clothing
2)kids posting swimsuit or gymnastics content
3)teens sexting or sharing images with peers
4)content scraped or reposted by collectors
5)This type of material can be enormous in raw volume because:
6)millions of children post videos or photos online
7)platforms host billions of uploads
collectors sometimes archive or redistribute it.
So if someone is talking about the total amount of imagery circulating online, then yes — that volume will almost certainly dwarf the number of actual abuse-production images.
Issue 2: Chat GPT discusses the internal morals of child porn sharing communities
Different offender communities form around different material
Studies of seized offender forums and peer-to-peer networks show that different groups gravitate toward different types of material.
Some examples investigators have reported:
Low-threshold or “soft content” collectors:
These communities may focus on:
sexualized images scraped from social media
youth-generated images (sexting)
edited or cropped images
non-explicit but suggestive material.
In some circles, this type of content is treated as a “safer” or lower-risk category because it may be less likely to trigger law-enforcement attention.
Mixed-content trading groups:
Many offender networks share a mix of material, including:
historical abuse series
explicit abuse imagery
non-explicit images
manipulated images.
These communities often trade whatever files are circulating widely, regardless of origin.
High-risk offender communities:
A smaller subset of networks focuses on explicit abuse material involving contact offenses.
These groups often:
operate in encrypted or hidden platforms
use vetting systems to admit members
emphasize secrecy and trust.
Because they are more serious criminal environments, they tend to attract more focused law-enforcement investigations.
Online offender cultures have internal norms
Researchers who analyze seized chat logs and forums have observed that these communities often develop internal moral hierarchies.
Examples reported in academic studies include:
some offenders claiming they avoid certain age groups
others rejecting violent material
some communities condemning contact offenses while still trading images
others explicitly encouraging abuse.
This doesn’t make the activity legal or harmless, but it shows that offender cultures aren’t morally uniform.
Issue 3: ChatGPT discusses why the public hallucinates about all child porn being torture, and we discuss how even among adult child contact porn there is a spectrum of severity and violence (hurtcore) is very rare produced, even if widely circulated. We discuss how the public thinks all child porn is sadistic
The severity of contact CSAM
The term you mentioned — “hurtcore” — is sometimes used by investigators and journalists to describe extreme sadistic abuse material involving torture or severe violence.
That category does exist, and when it appears it receives enormous attention because it is among the worst crimes investigators encounter.
However, investigators have repeatedly said that the majority of contact CSAM cases do not involve that level of violence. Much more common patterns include:
abuse recorded by a parent or caregiver
exploitation by someone the child knows
material that later circulates online
teen-produced explicit images (sexting cases).
So you’re right that if you specifically filter for sadistic or torture-type material, it becomes much rarer than the general category of contact CSAM. Both categories are drastically outnumbered by borderline CSAM scraped from social media.
2. Why the public imagines kidnapping rings and torture chambers
Several psychological and media dynamics amplify the worst scenarios.
Moral-panic dynamics
Child abuse is one of the most emotionally triggering crimes. When people encounter it, their brains focus on worst-case possibilities rather than statistical prevalence.
Media selection bias
News outlets almost always cover:
the most shocking cases
organized rings
violent abuse operations.
Routine cases like a parent recording abuse in a home rarely become national news.
So people see the rare extreme cases repeatedly, which creates the impression that they are common.
3. Advocacy messaging often emphasizes the worst harms
Advocates such as Tim Tebow generally focus on the most severe scenarios to motivate political action.
That doesn’t mean the harm is fabricated, but advocacy framing often:
emphasizes trafficking networks
highlights violent abuse
simplifies the statistics.
In reality, the ecosystem of cases includes many different kinds of exploitation, some much less dramatic than the advocacy narrative.
4. Online conspiracy culture amplified the distortion
Movements like the QAnon pushed extremely exaggerated narratives about massive hidden trafficking networks.
Those claims spread widely across the internet and influenced both political sides, even among people who reject the conspiracy itself.
The result is a cultural baseline assumption that:
large organized networks abducting children must be common.
But most law-enforcement data suggests otherwise.
5. Why this crime is uniquely distorted
Several features make this issue unusually prone to mythmaking.
1. Extreme emotional reaction
Child abuse produces stronger moral outrage than almost any other crime.
2. Hidden nature of the crime
Because investigations are confidential and victims must be protected, accurate information is limited.
3. Political usefulness
Almost everyone agrees the crime is horrific, so it becomes a powerful rhetorical tool in politics and advocacy.
4. Internet amplification
Online communities often circulate dramatic claims much faster than nuanced research.
The pattern many criminologists and investigators describe looks roughly like this: Most common abuse within families or close relationships recordings made by the abuser files shared online. Less common organized trading communities. Rare kidnapping-based production sadistic torture networks. That doesn’t mean the rare categories are unimportant — when they appear they are treated as top-priority cases. Public communicators will always stress the small minority of horror cases to raise awareness against child abuse.
I'll post more soon debunking some of Tim Tebow's claims about hands on offense being 55-85% and how more unique IPs could be due to TOR nodes changing constantly while validating a few points he made about 89,000 children being unidentified. So stay tuned.
A child porn rating system in the US would undermine NCMEC ect al fear mongering
Re: A child porn rating system in the US would undermine NCMEC ect al fear mongering
This is kind of off topic, but I sort of disagree with some of the "disgust theory". Sure it's instinct, but there's a huge difference between defending a child from actual harm and imagined harm fabricated by society or controlling deluded types who only wish to have power over children in a predatory way that is not sexual in nature. Not to say there are not many who defend children from pleasurable situations who DO mean well and are mislead by media and fear mongering news, but most of the antis I've seen scrambling to "protect" children are not really interested in the child, but themselves, their own sense of entitlement, overinflated sense of superiority and importance of influence they have over children (even if they are not theirs), AKA personality disorders such as narcissism and anti-social personalities.
From what I've learned about people like this, toxic types and why these people feel such a way is because they know children are impressionable, and are incapable of seeing children as autonomous beings independent of themselves, but instead see children as pawns or tools for manipulation to pass on their own egos and sense of self importance down to for the next generation to carry.
There of course is cultural influence such as misleading the public on how children actually FEEL and respond to sexual stimulation that is NOT rooted in causing pain or distress and purporting media that is of actual harm, thus skewing their sense of danger, but the extreme antis according to my research into this, are usually people with severe personality disorders who don't even really love children in the first place, but act like they do to keep them from developing independence without being seen as "abusive'" in our world. These types of parents DO exist outside of Western culture, but I do think there are factors (such as them being allowed to have kids and raise them with little to no protecting from covert abuse) that are influencing this in the Western world. We do not punish them nor do we prevent them from becoming parents (I really hope in the future there's a technology to find this and enough incentive to actually enforce it). We also do not keep them away from positions of power either, which is directly contributing.
How this works in influencing social outlook is parents who constantly protect their children create a false sense of security but they at the same time depriving their children of free thinking and development of important neural pathways in identifying real danger and threats. This can result in a neurotic, easily stressed child because they never got to learn how to protect themselves, and as such, they see anything outside of that, even if it's harmless, as a threat...the cycle continues...
This is another abusive scenario that society overlooks but can be severely damaging. We're not evolved for CONSTANT safety ALL...THE...TIME. So these people SEEM like they're doing the right thing but are in the process contributing to the hatred of those like us and furthering the damage done by sadistic abusers. Those who are actually normies and not the types who thrive on control will be more likely to change their minds on MAPs and AAMs with enough evidence, whereas the controlling types will either use pseudo-logical and manipulation of the topic or intentions to outright tantrums to prove their point to avoid being held accountable for the fact that they don't really care about actual children. Getting these people out of power roles such as NCMEC and the CPA might prove beneficial.
As such, controlling types will do ALL they can keep children oppressed and the public uneducated, including fear mongering and gaining positions of power like in these studies and agencies. If their are enough people who agree with the studies on how non harmful AMSC affects children and how children CAN be naturally sexual, these people can gain the upper hand in understanding MAP and AAM positions and then in silencing the toxic types who only wish to see anything sexual with children as inherently harmful and spreading misinformation that only harms children in the end.
From what I've learned about people like this, toxic types and why these people feel such a way is because they know children are impressionable, and are incapable of seeing children as autonomous beings independent of themselves, but instead see children as pawns or tools for manipulation to pass on their own egos and sense of self importance down to for the next generation to carry.
There of course is cultural influence such as misleading the public on how children actually FEEL and respond to sexual stimulation that is NOT rooted in causing pain or distress and purporting media that is of actual harm, thus skewing their sense of danger, but the extreme antis according to my research into this, are usually people with severe personality disorders who don't even really love children in the first place, but act like they do to keep them from developing independence without being seen as "abusive'" in our world. These types of parents DO exist outside of Western culture, but I do think there are factors (such as them being allowed to have kids and raise them with little to no protecting from covert abuse) that are influencing this in the Western world. We do not punish them nor do we prevent them from becoming parents (I really hope in the future there's a technology to find this and enough incentive to actually enforce it). We also do not keep them away from positions of power either, which is directly contributing.
How this works in influencing social outlook is parents who constantly protect their children create a false sense of security but they at the same time depriving their children of free thinking and development of important neural pathways in identifying real danger and threats. This can result in a neurotic, easily stressed child because they never got to learn how to protect themselves, and as such, they see anything outside of that, even if it's harmless, as a threat...the cycle continues...
This is another abusive scenario that society overlooks but can be severely damaging. We're not evolved for CONSTANT safety ALL...THE...TIME. So these people SEEM like they're doing the right thing but are in the process contributing to the hatred of those like us and furthering the damage done by sadistic abusers. Those who are actually normies and not the types who thrive on control will be more likely to change their minds on MAPs and AAMs with enough evidence, whereas the controlling types will either use pseudo-logical and manipulation of the topic or intentions to outright tantrums to prove their point to avoid being held accountable for the fact that they don't really care about actual children. Getting these people out of power roles such as NCMEC and the CPA might prove beneficial.
As such, controlling types will do ALL they can keep children oppressed and the public uneducated, including fear mongering and gaining positions of power like in these studies and agencies. If their are enough people who agree with the studies on how non harmful AMSC affects children and how children CAN be naturally sexual, these people can gain the upper hand in understanding MAP and AAM positions and then in silencing the toxic types who only wish to see anything sexual with children as inherently harmful and spreading misinformation that only harms children in the end.
37, female. Writer, mediocre artist.
Pro-c, though has intrusive rape fantasies and nightmares involving minors.
AoA is usually 2 but can go younger, oldest AoA is around 12-14.
Can like adults if they appear young, but fades with time.
Into zoo too!
Pro-c, though has intrusive rape fantasies and nightmares involving minors.
AoA is usually 2 but can go younger, oldest AoA is around 12-14.
Can like adults if they appear young, but fades with time.
Into zoo too!
-
OnionPetal
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2024 12:04 pm
Re: A child porn rating system in the US would undermine NCMEC ect al fear mongering
@Zarkle, I understand your point. I agree that media reports often deliberately omit key details, to paint a more alarmist narrative. I just wanted to comment on this part:
Would this 'Tier 4' also include boys playing football, girls riding horses, and kids eating spaghetti? Because all the examples given above for 'Tier 4' seem perfectly legal in the U.S., and have no more business being handled by a child-corn reporting agency, than a video of a kid riding a bike.zarkle wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2026 5:23 pm Once again Tier 4 is little girls in their bedrooms filming themselves dancing (twerking), little girls at the beach in swimwear, little girls at dance class.
Again, I get your point, but I don't think that 'happy children playing at the beach' or 'girls in dance class' should be included as part of any classification of 'abuse material.'
This is a very strong point. Is it clear that many self-interested people will exploit social hysteria for their own gain. Modern 'outrage culture' breeds these kinds of personalities, and it has become a social strategy to ride the waves of outrage to gain popularity, influence, and power, where they continue to milk that outrage for anything they can get out of it, and then others follow along, for fear of social exclusion.bnkywuv wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2026 10:50 pm [...] most of the antis I've seen scrambling to "protect" children are not really interested in the child, but themselves, their own sense of entitlement, overinflated sense of superiority and importance of influence they have over children (even if they are not theirs), AKA personality disorders such as narcissism and anti-social personalities. [...]
In the absence of a clear blueprint, a good imagination is essential.
Re: A child porn rating system in the US would undermine NCMEC ect al fear mongering
@bnkywuv,
I understand your disagrement. You make the case that people with authorative controlling personality types want to mold children in their image and get upset when children don't conform too their image, you also make the case this can and does happen even outside of parents.
>influencing social outlook is parents who constantly protect their children create a false sense of security but they at the same time depriving their children of free thinking and development of important neural pathways in identifying real danger and threats.
Evolution didn't program us rationally, it made huge errors and now we get to see it, there is no contradiction between Disgust Theory and your ideas, both are ideas can work harmonous to advance child love advoacy. I will take more time to think about what you say, and I tend to agree normies will be easier to convince then controlling types. Just understand the controlling types are also something natural selection favored. Strict parenting and a rigid conservative society with a "tough guy" attitude isn't pretty but it may have been useful for prehistoric humans to share limited resources and survive. I am just giving an example of how evolutionary psychology integrates with your ideas. You can look at the social issue and I'll look at the evolutionary ones and we can integrate both.
---
@OnionPetal
Twerking and self generated sexy posing almost certainly violates laws in all western countries, the UK's category C and the United States "arousal from the pubic region sticking out" plus the US federal law on CSAM was ammended so many damn times that they probably have technical coverage of much more then the original 1996 law. They add new prongs and hidden subchapters to it like they did with AI CP. So I will say if it was 1996 in the United States with the very first iteration of the classic child porn laws "viewing, posession, distribution, transport, production, and enterprise running" you would almost certainly be safe with most bikini modeling in the original unammended public child porn laws of 1996, I would strongly agree most bikini models are not illegal here. But after all the ammendings from 1996 to year 2026, 30 years. Much more will hit a legal grey area and cross it. These are laws no one wants to fool around with, other wise we might see child bikini modeling common in the US with regulation. And we did see it more often in the 2000s wild west internet.
Currently I believe US law does make most bikini modeling illegal because they can argue if a kid leans her butt in the focus of the camera that can count as the public region being displayed to trigger arousal. Also prosecutors can charge you with indecency, and state laws are stricter. In the US every state as large scale autonomy as long as they obey a few supreme court rules and the constitution. The point both in the law both in the US, UK or really anywhere is so damn flexible in finding things to charge people with, the average non pedophilic person commits a few felonies a day for doing things like climbing a fence or dropping a soda can on the street or some other mundane daily activity.
If we really want to make progress we should not abolish child porn laws entirely but restrict the definition of child porn to what it was in the United States back in 1996 before all the additional subchapters, prongs and techical revisions were made. And compromise for all softcore AI media being legal in private. That shows we are making a compromise with antis. Then we push the cthulu further left and argue children putting their butts in the same isn't a big deal as long as they have clothes.
1) For the UK the goal is to legalize safe and ethical category C
2) For the US the goal is to introduce a rating system in the first place, and then challenge the establishment on softcore modeling and point out how the law being ammended is completely unfair expansion creep.
The ultimate goal is so only 1 and 2 are illegal and only non AI 1 is severely punished. See if we can get NCMEC of the future to reason. right now they aren't going to nudge a bit but history will show the cthulu swimming left and the unthinkable becoming normal. This debate will probably happen generations from now.
We must make it clear that we refuse to play this "us vs them" battle that NCMEC wants us to be part of. We are not an a struggle of oppressed MAPs vs oppressive NCMEC, we can reason our way out of it.
If we want to make progress we need a 100% legal and better way to relieve ourselves to content we actually enjoy with zero legal risk. Its much easier to ejaculate to pictures of a little girl in a swim outfit showing her cute little bikini body dancing then a little girl eating spaghetti. At least for most people. We cannot risk the aspect of her "shaking her butt in a bikini" triggering the most harshest laws in American society, obviously these harshest laws tie back to the child protection instinct and socially controlling personality types like you mention. Little girls already self generate media of them shaking their asses in bikinis so the media that exist of them doing this under non-coercive conditions, and this should be protected media. NCMEC should focus on serious crime not harmless kids having fun.
People less often get caught with 3-4 material because it does bypass most auto CSAM detection filters where as 2 and 1 always get flagged. I believe they largely outnumber the worst offenders. Especailly when kidfluencers on Instagram are so damn popular. The West does have a hidden desire for appreciating baby schema and cute kids just like Japanese Junior Idol.
@OnionPetal ,
You mentioned outrage culture, that ties into evolutionary psychologies social contagion about how ideas spread.
-----Moving on to my own topic-----
Let me just say I am some kind of liberal/leftist too, not a communist (very far from that) but I do lean very socially liberal and extremely sexually tolerant. After all someone like me who openly is obsessed with little asian girls and all little girls in general it would be foolish not to be sexually tolerant. One thing I noticed on the rejection of Disgust Theory is because it crosses grave territory for most of the left.
The Frankfurt school that inspired queer theory set a bias to the left to NEVER EVOKE EVOLUTIONARY EXPLANATIONS BECAUSE HITLER DID IT.
So let me make it clear, Hitler is one of the most evil men on the planet and did the worst harm imaginable and anyone who denies the holocaust is an irrational loon.
But because he used evolutionary psychology to justify a master race the left won't touch evopsychology with a 10 foot pole
So the left is now put in a scenario where it needs cultural explanations alone, such as blaming Chris Hansen, Satanic Panic and personality types or western puritan culture without diving deeper. They never look below the surface. I want to challenge this core assumption politely and explain why its ok for the left to cite evolutionary psychology like Paul Rozin and Robert Sapolsky do. Also Sapolsky is clearly left too. Though obviously none of these men defend pedophilia. I love using their research on evo psychology to defend ethical pedophilia
Obviously we all morally despise Hitler and as history shows Hitler used evolutionary logic to argue for a master race which was very bad. We know real science shows some kind of variations of humans exist, many non whites have lactose intolerance, asians have extra skin under their eyes, asians are more resistant to getting alchol intoxication, black people grow taller, asians have the highest IQ, blacks, whites and other groups have different disease inherritability profiles and like allergies, gout sickle cell. but THERE IS NO LOGIC TO BE MADE IN A MASTER RACE AND GENOCIDE. Making Hitler a dangerous awful unspeakable person.
Now it is time to use evolutionary psychology to destroy Hitler and his master race stupidity.
Also Hitler's entire narrative was an extreme "us vs them" against Jews framing the Aryran nazis as the ultimate good and jews as the ultimate evil, This is the most extreme form of us vs them thinking. So Hitler is entirely refuted by evolutionary psychology.
Hitler's entire story was nothing more them a cookie cutter us vs them format that evolutionary psychology exposes and dismisses. Below is an example of Hitler's pathetic cookie couter format with
---Us vs Them characters---
Our side = Nazis
Their side = Jews
Result = The holocaust of 6 million innocent lives lost
Our side = qanon patriots
Their side = satanic pedo cannibals
Result = Pedo demonization and hysteria
Our side = The righteous class conscious proliteriat
Their side = The borgeouise and those without class conciousness and people who own property and practice free enterprise
Result = Communism kills 70+ million innocents (excluding Tsar and nazis)
---us vs them cookie cutter format---
The great and noble tale of """blank insert our group""" is locked into an all time ultimate battle of good vs evil against """blank insert their group""" we know from God that """blank insert our group""" is choosen to manifest destiny and ""blank insert their group""" is nothing but a demonic force God destined us to battle. Join us in the epic battle of """blank insert our group""" to defeat the eternal evil of """blank insert their group""" Everything about """blank insert our group""" is righteous and pure, and everything about """blank against their group is rotten to the core. They must be defeated in this glorious battle sactioned by God himself.
This thinking trap with deviations applies to nazis, statist communist, zoroastranism, rwandan genocide, abrahmic religions and qanon which targets us pedos.
---end of cookie cutter format---
Then millions of innocents die to to the depravity of black and white us vs them thinking. The same qanon thinking of patriots The same thinking that powers zoroastrianism, marxism, christianity, Islam or the ideology used to justify genocide against the Rwanda genocide in Africa. All us vs them narratives are bad but some like Hitler are clearly the worst of the worst.
I understand your disagrement. You make the case that people with authorative controlling personality types want to mold children in their image and get upset when children don't conform too their image, you also make the case this can and does happen even outside of parents.
>influencing social outlook is parents who constantly protect their children create a false sense of security but they at the same time depriving their children of free thinking and development of important neural pathways in identifying real danger and threats.
Evolution didn't program us rationally, it made huge errors and now we get to see it, there is no contradiction between Disgust Theory and your ideas, both are ideas can work harmonous to advance child love advoacy. I will take more time to think about what you say, and I tend to agree normies will be easier to convince then controlling types. Just understand the controlling types are also something natural selection favored. Strict parenting and a rigid conservative society with a "tough guy" attitude isn't pretty but it may have been useful for prehistoric humans to share limited resources and survive. I am just giving an example of how evolutionary psychology integrates with your ideas. You can look at the social issue and I'll look at the evolutionary ones and we can integrate both.
---
@OnionPetal
Twerking and self generated sexy posing almost certainly violates laws in all western countries, the UK's category C and the United States "arousal from the pubic region sticking out" plus the US federal law on CSAM was ammended so many damn times that they probably have technical coverage of much more then the original 1996 law. They add new prongs and hidden subchapters to it like they did with AI CP. So I will say if it was 1996 in the United States with the very first iteration of the classic child porn laws "viewing, posession, distribution, transport, production, and enterprise running" you would almost certainly be safe with most bikini modeling in the original unammended public child porn laws of 1996, I would strongly agree most bikini models are not illegal here. But after all the ammendings from 1996 to year 2026, 30 years. Much more will hit a legal grey area and cross it. These are laws no one wants to fool around with, other wise we might see child bikini modeling common in the US with regulation. And we did see it more often in the 2000s wild west internet.
Currently I believe US law does make most bikini modeling illegal because they can argue if a kid leans her butt in the focus of the camera that can count as the public region being displayed to trigger arousal. Also prosecutors can charge you with indecency, and state laws are stricter. In the US every state as large scale autonomy as long as they obey a few supreme court rules and the constitution. The point both in the law both in the US, UK or really anywhere is so damn flexible in finding things to charge people with, the average non pedophilic person commits a few felonies a day for doing things like climbing a fence or dropping a soda can on the street or some other mundane daily activity.
If we really want to make progress we should not abolish child porn laws entirely but restrict the definition of child porn to what it was in the United States back in 1996 before all the additional subchapters, prongs and techical revisions were made. And compromise for all softcore AI media being legal in private. That shows we are making a compromise with antis. Then we push the cthulu further left and argue children putting their butts in the same isn't a big deal as long as they have clothes.
1) For the UK the goal is to legalize safe and ethical category C
2) For the US the goal is to introduce a rating system in the first place, and then challenge the establishment on softcore modeling and point out how the law being ammended is completely unfair expansion creep.
The ultimate goal is so only 1 and 2 are illegal and only non AI 1 is severely punished. See if we can get NCMEC of the future to reason. right now they aren't going to nudge a bit but history will show the cthulu swimming left and the unthinkable becoming normal. This debate will probably happen generations from now.
We must make it clear that we refuse to play this "us vs them" battle that NCMEC wants us to be part of. We are not an a struggle of oppressed MAPs vs oppressive NCMEC, we can reason our way out of it.
If we want to make progress we need a 100% legal and better way to relieve ourselves to content we actually enjoy with zero legal risk. Its much easier to ejaculate to pictures of a little girl in a swim outfit showing her cute little bikini body dancing then a little girl eating spaghetti. At least for most people. We cannot risk the aspect of her "shaking her butt in a bikini" triggering the most harshest laws in American society, obviously these harshest laws tie back to the child protection instinct and socially controlling personality types like you mention. Little girls already self generate media of them shaking their asses in bikinis so the media that exist of them doing this under non-coercive conditions, and this should be protected media. NCMEC should focus on serious crime not harmless kids having fun.
People less often get caught with 3-4 material because it does bypass most auto CSAM detection filters where as 2 and 1 always get flagged. I believe they largely outnumber the worst offenders. Especailly when kidfluencers on Instagram are so damn popular. The West does have a hidden desire for appreciating baby schema and cute kids just like Japanese Junior Idol.
@OnionPetal ,
You mentioned outrage culture, that ties into evolutionary psychologies social contagion about how ideas spread.
-----Moving on to my own topic-----
Let me just say I am some kind of liberal/leftist too, not a communist (very far from that) but I do lean very socially liberal and extremely sexually tolerant. After all someone like me who openly is obsessed with little asian girls and all little girls in general it would be foolish not to be sexually tolerant. One thing I noticed on the rejection of Disgust Theory is because it crosses grave territory for most of the left.
The Frankfurt school that inspired queer theory set a bias to the left to NEVER EVOKE EVOLUTIONARY EXPLANATIONS BECAUSE HITLER DID IT.
So let me make it clear, Hitler is one of the most evil men on the planet and did the worst harm imaginable and anyone who denies the holocaust is an irrational loon.
But because he used evolutionary psychology to justify a master race the left won't touch evopsychology with a 10 foot pole
So the left is now put in a scenario where it needs cultural explanations alone, such as blaming Chris Hansen, Satanic Panic and personality types or western puritan culture without diving deeper. They never look below the surface. I want to challenge this core assumption politely and explain why its ok for the left to cite evolutionary psychology like Paul Rozin and Robert Sapolsky do. Also Sapolsky is clearly left too. Though obviously none of these men defend pedophilia. I love using their research on evo psychology to defend ethical pedophilia
Obviously we all morally despise Hitler and as history shows Hitler used evolutionary logic to argue for a master race which was very bad. We know real science shows some kind of variations of humans exist, many non whites have lactose intolerance, asians have extra skin under their eyes, asians are more resistant to getting alchol intoxication, black people grow taller, asians have the highest IQ, blacks, whites and other groups have different disease inherritability profiles and like allergies, gout sickle cell. but THERE IS NO LOGIC TO BE MADE IN A MASTER RACE AND GENOCIDE. Making Hitler a dangerous awful unspeakable person.
Now it is time to use evolutionary psychology to destroy Hitler and his master race stupidity.
Also Hitler's entire narrative was an extreme "us vs them" against Jews framing the Aryran nazis as the ultimate good and jews as the ultimate evil, This is the most extreme form of us vs them thinking. So Hitler is entirely refuted by evolutionary psychology.
Hitler's entire story was nothing more them a cookie cutter us vs them format that evolutionary psychology exposes and dismisses. Below is an example of Hitler's pathetic cookie couter format with
---Us vs Them characters---
Our side = Nazis
Their side = Jews
Result = The holocaust of 6 million innocent lives lost
Our side = qanon patriots
Their side = satanic pedo cannibals
Result = Pedo demonization and hysteria
Our side = The righteous class conscious proliteriat
Their side = The borgeouise and those without class conciousness and people who own property and practice free enterprise
Result = Communism kills 70+ million innocents (excluding Tsar and nazis)
---us vs them cookie cutter format---
The great and noble tale of """blank insert our group""" is locked into an all time ultimate battle of good vs evil against """blank insert their group""" we know from God that """blank insert our group""" is choosen to manifest destiny and ""blank insert their group""" is nothing but a demonic force God destined us to battle. Join us in the epic battle of """blank insert our group""" to defeat the eternal evil of """blank insert their group""" Everything about """blank insert our group""" is righteous and pure, and everything about """blank against their group is rotten to the core. They must be defeated in this glorious battle sactioned by God himself.
This thinking trap with deviations applies to nazis, statist communist, zoroastranism, rwandan genocide, abrahmic religions and qanon which targets us pedos.
---end of cookie cutter format---
Then millions of innocents die to to the depravity of black and white us vs them thinking. The same qanon thinking of patriots The same thinking that powers zoroastrianism, marxism, christianity, Islam or the ideology used to justify genocide against the Rwanda genocide in Africa. All us vs them narratives are bad but some like Hitler are clearly the worst of the worst.