Excellent analysis, BeeZee.
And welcome to MAP Forum.
Is “Grooming” Just The Regular Courtship Process?
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BLueRibbon
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:03 pm
Re: Is “Grooming” Just The Regular Courtship Process?
I agree with most of you here: most of the damage is caused by society's attitudes. As in almost all similar cases. It's not just that there are cases where the relationship is not inherently harmful and all the damage comes from social attitudes... it's that the entire social and legal system is designed in such a way as to victimize and maximize suffering that, even in relationships that are inherently harmful and where there is real abuse, the way people react multiplies the harm.
This whole premise of grooming... I think it would only make sense in the most extreme cases, like, I don't know, children who are completely isolated from society and grow up without knowing what sex is. If an adult has a daughter and raises her in a cabin in the middle of the woods and makes her believe that sex between fathers and daughters is normal and everyone does it, yes, then he is taking advantage of her lack of knowledge about life to manipulate her. But otherwise... I think it's ridiculous. As your title suggests, what people call grooming is just the usual process of courtship between people whose ages are considered immoral.
I would also like to repeat something I posted in another thread recently. My point is that the grooming discourse is an act of faith, it's completely unscientific: its double premise (you cannot consent to sex, you were manipulated into doing it & you cannot enjoy sex, you were manipulated into believing you enjoyed it) is not refutable.
How do you refute the premise that no minor can consent?
Let's suppose that a person says "hey, when I was a minor, I consented to have sex with an adult"... No, you didn't! The adult used his mental powers to make you believe that you could, but you couldn't really consent!
How do you refute the premise that AMSC is intrinsically harmful? Let's suppose that a person says "hey, when I was a minor, I had sex with an adult, I suffered no harm and I enjoyed it"... No! You actually suffered terrible damage, only you haven't realized it yet! The adult used his mental powers to make you believe you weren't being harmed, but in reality you have enormous trauma!
So, that's it! Minors can't consent, AMSC is intrinsically harmful, there is a porcelain teapot between Earth and Mars, and an invisible, incorporeal dragon in my garage. You will never be able to prove otherwise.
In any case, it's not much consolation that almost all of us agree on our position: we are in our echo chamber and no one in the comments on that YouTube video is going to question the narrative (all we can find is a troll commenting "U no u love it" or "sexy story"). I need my Gmail account, I use it for everything, even for work, and it's linked to my phone number, you can't just create a new one whenever you want. It seems quite likely that if I post a comment on that video trying to make people think, I'll lose my account, and I guess the same goes for the rest of you... so here we are, unable to influence the mainstream discourse.
This whole premise of grooming... I think it would only make sense in the most extreme cases, like, I don't know, children who are completely isolated from society and grow up without knowing what sex is. If an adult has a daughter and raises her in a cabin in the middle of the woods and makes her believe that sex between fathers and daughters is normal and everyone does it, yes, then he is taking advantage of her lack of knowledge about life to manipulate her. But otherwise... I think it's ridiculous. As your title suggests, what people call grooming is just the usual process of courtship between people whose ages are considered immoral.
I would also like to repeat something I posted in another thread recently. My point is that the grooming discourse is an act of faith, it's completely unscientific: its double premise (you cannot consent to sex, you were manipulated into doing it & you cannot enjoy sex, you were manipulated into believing you enjoyed it) is not refutable.
How do you refute the premise that no minor can consent?
Let's suppose that a person says "hey, when I was a minor, I consented to have sex with an adult"... No, you didn't! The adult used his mental powers to make you believe that you could, but you couldn't really consent!
How do you refute the premise that AMSC is intrinsically harmful? Let's suppose that a person says "hey, when I was a minor, I had sex with an adult, I suffered no harm and I enjoyed it"... No! You actually suffered terrible damage, only you haven't realized it yet! The adult used his mental powers to make you believe you weren't being harmed, but in reality you have enormous trauma!
So, that's it! Minors can't consent, AMSC is intrinsically harmful, there is a porcelain teapot between Earth and Mars, and an invisible, incorporeal dragon in my garage. You will never be able to prove otherwise.
Very interesting point, by the way. That is, indeed, a danger that many could overlook.Learning to undeny wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 6:26 pm Perhaps he believed he was a positive influence for her just because they were in love for each other. I guess it's common that, when some MAPs realise that the narrative that they can't have a positive relationship with a young partner is wrong, they just follow their instincts, but the problem is that they can get no feedback since it has to remain a secret, so if there's something wrong they are doing and they don't realise it, they have no "observer" to tell them. Thus, it's much harder to create a healthy relationship.
In any case, it's not much consolation that almost all of us agree on our position: we are in our echo chamber and no one in the comments on that YouTube video is going to question the narrative (all we can find is a troll commenting "U no u love it" or "sexy story"). I need my Gmail account, I use it for everything, even for work, and it's linked to my phone number, you can't just create a new one whenever you want. It seems quite likely that if I post a comment on that video trying to make people think, I'll lose my account, and I guess the same goes for the rest of you... so here we are, unable to influence the mainstream discourse.
Re: Is “Grooming” Just The Regular Courtship Process?
I think a lot of the harm is from societal stigma but pedophiles are just as capable of being shitty partners. I was forced into things I didn't want and manipulated into not transitioning by my pedophile situationship. Doubtlessly societal stigma made it harder to get over and forced me into it longer than I would have without it