Gay Rollback Is Coming (And That's A Good Thing)

[Anonymous_Lover]

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[Artaxerxes II]

Speaking of TERFs, pro-lesbian TERF Kathleen Stock has recently came out against abortions: https://archive.ph/AXD6L

It is bizarre hearing a feminist speaking against abortion based on a convoluted appeals to both conservative feminist and pro-life talking points. But it does point to a general direction at least within British, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander and (tentatively) American feminisms wherein TERF hegemony will lead to feminism becoming extremely reactionary and conservative to the point of being indistinguishable from the western right, turning into the white middle-class women's caucus of every right-populist party in the west.

Going back to OP's point, anyone concern-trolling about the gay lobby's demise has to understand that it costs nothing for MAPs to mock the demise of the gay lobby and its supporters within the PMC. If said "freedom" is built on the exclusion of others based on political expedience, then MAPs never had the chance to successfully petition with the gay lobby in the first place by 1994. It's time for people to do away with delusions of grand coalitions because for such alliances to exist every group needs bargaining power, and MAPs lack it. All in all, us MAPs and our allies will never get far if we insist on reforming and appealing to the same rotten status quo that is inherently exclusionary towards us and oppresses us. It's like eurocommunists being so delusional as to think the EU can be turned communist (something illegal for member countries per the current EU constitution) by just electing their MPs into the European Parliament, in spite of the Commission being the actual decision-makers.

As a wise saying goes: "To build something new and better, you've got to destroy the old"

As uncomfortable as it may be for the MAP community, though times are ahead, old tactics won't work as the current closure of the Hormuz strait is wreaking havoc on the world. It's time for a new change. A good start would be to stop trying to appeal to the declining gay lobby like hopeless stray puppies.

[RoosterDance]

I understand what you're saying with this, but I cannot see this as a good thing. I don't want more people to lose before we all can win, so to speak. How even do these moral crusaders so often manage to gain such influence and authority anyway?

[Anonymous_Lover]

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[RoosterDance]

Hm. Very well. That was a good explanation.

[zarkle]

Virtually all feminist are anti MAP in the strictest sense of the word. Sex positive feminist that approve of MAPs exist but are very very rare. In left wing cities there is evidence of gay men supporting laws that allow a 7 to 10 year age gap before legal statutory rape is triggered while feminist oppose it supporting a standard 2-3 year age gaps limit, thus making 17 and 21 dating legal rape and kidnapping in their world view. It doesn't look like there is any hope for gay trans and MAP allies in the West considering how hostile they are towards us. When searching for "map rights" and "pedophilia" on mainstream Mastodon and Bluesky servers I found virtually nothing but anti post, many post coming from gays trans and lesbians showing clearly they don't like us. The kindest thing was "think before you act" and "get therapy" post. The bulk of it was conversations of Trump's possible connection to Epstein.

Moving topics, I was thinking for several months that MAPs can take extreme risk and help gays in third world and Islamic countries where the punishment of being Gay is death penalty, such as Islamic countries that throw gays off buildings and or incarnate them. This is the ultimate "rollback" that we can capitalize on. This is a huge risk aiding an armed gay resistance in those countries but the pay off might be huge if successful and of course unlike mainstream LGBT we will tell them we are MAPs and that will give them a strong reason to support us as they don't have the cultural baggage. And of course educate them on the science of disgust and how it affects all of us.

Simple videos like this will do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0_2LtC3YSM

That way if we take enormous life of death risk - we could get solid homosexual/queer allies in Africa in the Middle east who will defend MAP rights. But once again that would imply 1) going to the middle east and Africa in dangerous zones, 2) finding gay/queer people in desperate scenarios and 3) setting up a civilian defensive militia org to protect them. Gay's in the West who have the luxury of safety won't touch MAPs with a ten foot pole, but gays in Africa and the Middle east who are desperate and have their life at risk will side with anyone kind enough to defend them.

Once again, I am not a leftist. I think the reason gays, trans and MAPs are oppressed is due to nature's mistakes. Natural selection favored humans to be nosy about the sex lives of others as a mating/social cohesion strategy, natural selection favored intense repulsion towards unwanted sexual advances, natural selection favored intense rage to defend child from danger even if the danger is nonsensical BS claims like qanon/pizzgate. Natural selection made all norm violations feel gross to us. These are the reasons we are under such pain. Bigotry is not solely tied to capitalism, colonialism, western powers or the rich 1%, its bad biology. We evolved on a planet that programmed us to think like meatheads, the chemicals in our brain cause us to divide the world into us vs them. Anti Queer people are just behaving like fucking chimps in the jungle like nature intended. Reason must overpower the bad aspects of our nature.

[Anonymous_Lover]

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[JGHeaven]

I understand what you're saying with this, but I cannot see this as a good thing. I don't want more people to lose before we all can win, so to speak. How even do these moral crusaders so often manage to gain such influence and authority anyway?

I don't want more people to lose before we all can win, so to speak.

Unfortunately, by excluding us, the other groups helped to make it inevitable. We unfortunately haven't been able to make much headway while everyone else's rights were respected. Maybe to a distant future historian the gap between LGBT normalization and MAP rights will look like a blip. For us in the present, it may open an opportunity that hasn't existed in a while, back when sexuality was more repressed for everyone, MAPs had somewhat more freedom and were more included in oppositional coalitions. If we're going back to that then that gives us an opportunity to get a sympathetic hearing at the very least. And certainly MAPs who are gay might become more vocal in circles opposing this.

How even do these moral crusaders so often manage to gain such influence and authority anyway?

A combination of bourgeois moralism, religiosity, reaction-formation creating disgust reflex, and punitive impulse. People love something they can pour energy into that makes them feel morally righteous because real life is often filled with moral grey areas and dirty-feeling compromises. The elite need scapegoats that the people can channel their anger towards otherwise it might be turned towards them. We're one of those scapegoats and in this culture, attacking us is not only cost-free, but something your socially rewarded for doing.

This is how I feel as well.
I'm not anti gay, I'm not anti anyone, I have no right to judge others for their sexuality or beliefs, I'm just another flawed human being.
But the whole LGBTQ+ community walks around with their flags and pride events, boasting about how great it is to be accepted and respected, how it's a reward for decades of oppression. Then in the same breath they shout the same bigoted hate towards maps and want nothing to do with us.

They're so short sighted that they can't see that they're opening the door to bigotry and hate and as that takes root and grows it will inevitably expand out to engulf the whole lgbtq+ community again. Then they'll be playing the victim and acting all surprised, baffled as to how anyone could treat them in such a mean way.

Well, I think it's a good thing, not because I'm a bigot because I'm not, but in this case it feels self inflicted and will hopefully shake some humanity back into them.

[reaver]

Moving topics, I was thinking for several months that MAPs can take extreme risk and help gays in third world and Islamic countries where the punishment of being Gay is death penalty, such as Islamic countries that throw gays off buildings and or incarnate them. This is the ultimate "rollback" that we can capitalize on.

Same old imperialism, only in a new bottle! If we favor this, what prevents e.g. liberal NGOs from promoting anti-pedophilia in nations more friendly nations?

[Anonymous_Lover]

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