Artaxerxes II and myself have already made the point, which I find compelling, that when the defense of gay marriage against bigots largely comes down to "who cares what consenting adults do in their privacy of their own home" then actually is it a zero sum struggle between us and them. If they have to use anti-MAP bigotry to defend their "rights" then what good are those rights to us? In fact, they are actually aiding our marginalization rather than it being a net positive or totally unrelated/neutral thing. And, in fact, the LGBT lobby and the broader Left have been in a rage calling the Trump admin and everything percieved to e to their right pedophiles. They are having their own Qtard moment. And, since Q reflected the deep incapacity and incompetence of the first Trump admin and the need to keep a diverse coalition of forces that were not natural allies welded together that also says a lot about where the anti-Trump coaltion is going and how effective it will be. Spoiler: its likely to splinter apart as soon as Trump's out of there as bourgeois right/centrist liberals break with the fragile tentative alliance they have with parts of the Left. I think you can say this is a new rule of American/Anglophobe politics: you start calling everyone not on your side a pedophile when you are either not in power and feel you are losing or feel that if you come to power the social/political basis of that power will be fragile rather than durable and overwhelming. So the people who you want to rescue hate you and would shoot you in the face on live camera if it meant they could flip one suburban soccer mom/boomercon/chud vote.Officerkrupke wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2026 3:09 pm Apparently rolling back gay marriage is good for MAPs?
I have yet to hear a compelling argument about why MAPs should not celebrate and utilize the opportunity when our enemies fail, let alone for why we should withold free labor for LGBT/feminist/leftist causes that marginalize and participate in whipping up hatred against us. I'm not sure the Right is actually worse rn tbh I see more pro-pedophilia/pedo adjacent content on X and the newly Zionist-controlled tik tok then I saw when those platforms were more liberal/woke adjacent. Maybe it has to do with the userbase and not the actual moderation which could be broken, which is fine but then its likely the cultural shift to the New Right that is giving people enough breathing room to flirt with being pro-pedo, even psuedoanonymously. My perception is you definitely got the banhammer much much faster two to six years ago for this type of stuff. People talk about woke 2.0, i think thats mostly a fake meme, but if it does consolidate, as things stand now, it will be vociferously anti-MAP and that is desirable because...? Seems to me the more they are allowed to fail the more they will either not be able to control the conversation around our issue or will have to enter unconventional alliances such as begrudging acceptance of MAPs.
A good deal of MAGA aren't really Christian nationalists but members of the secular/pagan/Jewish hard right but I take your point. Peter Thiel himself might be a Christian but the average card carrying member of the Thiel mafia is a secular person obsessed with tech and fascist ideas and aesthetics not with returning to an idealized Christian past.A lot of these guys on X howl their lungs out to memes about towel boys (often actually pictures of women that seem boyish like Gio Scotti) or Howling Mutant constantly making "jokes" about child molestation. I think when Araxerxes is ready for publish the essay every lib on this forum should read his essay on The Right Wing and Minor AttractionBc the Christian Nationalists aren’t exactly broadly pro-MAP either.
its a groundbreaking essay.
Nonetheless, history shows that even if the Right aren't our friends, they aren't uniformly our enemies, so why is it important for MAPs to help liberal and left-wing causes in exchange for nothing or to at least passively hope they succeed from the sidelines when that logic is not applied to the Right? Even when it comes to somewhat friendly forces on the Right? And let's not kid ourselves while there are liberal states like California that have left "child marriage laws" on the books who is it who are broadly against them? Who are likely to ignore them and vote to keep them intact in the current environment?
And, if this counts as a focus on heterosexual child marriage to the exclusion of other forms of minor attraction once this holdover is lost when do you expect MAPs to win again? If gays losing access to marriage somehow hurts MAPs then wow does helping wokes/democrats take power and potentially ban child marriage contribute to a climate favorable to MAPs?
In theory, since marriage equality is still the law of the land and "child marriage" laws exist why don't pederasts and lesbians take advantage of this loophole and marry teens and tweens themselves where they can? Unless... its just not that important because gays aren't really interested in getting married. One would think, though, with as many pederasts ive seen professing to be exclusive there would be no problem with making a partner into an honest boy-wife. I've seen a number of pederasts and bi-MAPs arguing against child marriage and yet I've never seen a pederast talking about getting gay married to a boy which is curious. And maybe i just dont spend enough time on boychat cuz im not gay but its weird how that never comes up.
Not a single group is criminalized or socially ostracized to a fraction of the extent that MAPs are and that's just a fact. I argue all the time that MAPs are the most criminalized and excluded sexual minority that history has ever known. In the grand scheme of things, this may be their just deserts, because freeing MAPs could be the key to freeing all excluded sexual minorities.But let’s not pretend it won’t leave every other group in the dust, including other MAPs.
Let me just take your point at face value for a moment, if they don't fight they'll lose. They'll die. And that's sad but its also reality. The real question then is do you think MAPs are powerful enough to stop that from happening when they cant save themselves?
From where I'm sitting, it looks like the average "queer" would rather shoot a MAP in the head and then make out with a fascist on top of his/her corpse. They'd literally rather die than accept your help so on some level you have to let them.
The question is your going to go to the streets and join this grand anti-fascist LARP fantasy for what? MAPs probably won't affect the outcome but if they do it will probably be forgotten immediately much like how the help that pederasts gave the gay movement was lost, and even trans people, who were always somewhat more socially acceptable than us in those decades, got buried for decades until reemerging explosively in the 2010s (though the trans movement seems to be falling off almost as explosively in the 2020s). But if MAPs are remembered in the near to medium term it will likely be by the fascists if they win and that will make us more of a target than presently.
Nobody on this forum or elsewhere in the community can stop Trump or Vance from flipping the fascism button, and I'd argue the ruling class has abandoned bourgeois democracy and reform already and so even if democratic forms remain like elections it will make no difference. Thats another conversation though.
I realize it can be a scary thing but you have to be willing to let enemies lose even if you fear rival enemies will do you real harm. If you want to be a revolutionary you have to accept this could all end badly and even the revolution we're fighting for might not only get obliterated but end up doing more harm than good. Yet can a soldier abandon his post on the fear that an enemy artillery strike on his position might mean he will die a senseless death or even that his sacrifice could somehow do more harm than good?
The middle class leadership/constituency of this movement who push reform and reconciliation with the system and the LGBT/feminist lobbies + the bloated corpse of the liberal establishment, who seem to be disproportionately made up of Gen Xers or late millennials fail to realize that we do need to be revolutionary to win our goals. Even reforms can't be won without revolutionary action.
And, you can't be a revolutionary if you're deathly afraid of the end of this present status quo. You have to be willing to break some eggs or to accept that broken eggs you care about are a possibility.
