Strategy by region

[Learning to undeny]

Multiple paths to a more sensible society with regards to youth sexuality and MAPs have been envisioned here. For simplicity, let's consider the following 3 types of path:

• Pro-c activism by MAPs and allies. This includes AoC reform as well as changes to CP laws. MAPs get visibility but that is not the main objective.
• Other forms of activism by MAPs and allies. Basically, other attempts to gain visibility and spread a more accurate view of MAPs without challenging the dominant narrative about AMSC. Fighting against the criminalization of the attraction, but not against the criniminalization of acts involving actual children.
• Activism by groups not directly related to MAPs. If a youth movement emerges challenging their general lack of freedoms, sooner or later they would, plausibly, add AoC reform to their objectives. An imminent, massive youth movement is the prerequisite for this otherwise ideal scenario. Groups other than young people and MAPs do not have a self-interest here, so their role would be secondary.
• Latency. Waiting with your arms crossed can be boring or exasperating. However, during a latency period like this there's a lot of work going on in the shadows. Community building, archiving, learning as much as possible and practising the skills that the impending movement will require.

It's wise to think about which path to choose because several paths may be in conflict with each other. For example, if it were a youth movement that paved the way to pro-c reforms, MAP visibility could actually be detrimental, at least in the early stages, given the negative image so many people have of MAPs. On the other hand, if a MAP rights movement without pro-c views were the only likely one, then pushing pro-c views too early might only make matters worse.

So, which is the right path? Well, I'm not saying there has to be a universally right path; perhaps different places require different strategies, as much as the world is globalised. Unfortunately, little attention has been paid to the differences between regions that should impact a choice of strategy.

This thread aims to foster the discussion of region-dependent strategies. Although I have little idea of how to group countries for this purpose, below is my best attempt at an overview, which hopefully others will improve. Keep in mind that I use the term "region" loosely, without implying geographical closeness.

• Anglo countries. These are the main drivers of anti-MAP prejudice in the world. While some countries might, perhaps, be less safe for MAPs, England is the winner when it comes to "culturally exporting" their prejudices. The US merits attention as a power in an imperialist mode, with a history of anti-MAP sentiment but ta the same time with some hebe or ephebophiles as leaders. Canada and Oceania would mostly fit here, but I'm not sure about India.
• Russia and other countries in Africa and the Middle East, especially Muslim ones, with their anti-LGBT culture, may not seem very welcoming. At the same time, they are likely to challenge Western cultural norms, including on certain forms of AMSC. See, for example, the thread on Somali men protesting against the rising of the AoC.
• Other European countries and Latin America. I believe those with more presence of first-wave activism tend to be worse off at present. MAPs may not be discussed that often, but without a balancing pro-MAP force the situation is bound to deteriorate.
• East and South-East Asia. This place includes many cultures, each with its own views on sexuality, and generally a bit more neutral towards MAPs, but there are a lot of complexities when looking at individual countries.

It's interesting to think about how each of these regions would evolve without any form of MAP activism. Unless some youth movement appeared, the situation seems unlikely to improve, in my opinion. But I don't know where such a youth movement could begin.

In anglo countries, any attempt at visibility will inevitably be associated with pro-c activism. That's why some anti-c try so hard to distance themselves from other MAPs, and yet they are silenced in the name of the "slippery slope". Maybe there is no better option than to bite the bullet and focus on pro-c activism... The only question is what to do different than in the past attempts...

In other parts of Europe, especially where MAPs have had little visibility so far, it could be easier to create a more accurate image of MAPs by an "identity" type of activism. Perhaps the "slippery slope" idea in the public would be less of a problem. Contact debate would inevitably come, but only once MAPs are known to the public in slightly more neutral terms. The strategy could also work in some Latin American and Asian countries, and would impact the conversation in anglo countries.

Muslim countries have been discussed before, too, in a thread where it was questioned whether Islam could be an ally for MAPs.

I'm very eager to hear your predictions on how things will naturally evolve in each region. Especially, what kind of strategy makes sense in each one.

[PurpleHouse]

I would like society to be open to discussion on all of them but i think maybe "other forms of activism" is a starting point because "MAPs exist and are real people with a real sexual orientation" is a more "acceptable" and undeniable statement than "AoC should change" - for example. It is an easier argument. And then it might be easier to have open discussion on contact, AoC and all. Also jumping straight to that discussion might just look like wishful thinking.

Maybe this "other forms" could happen at the same time as a bit of youth movement. If MAPs are understood as being people with real orientation who are able to control themselves and arent dangerous, and at the same time the youth movement is happening, the two might converge and the wider discussion on contact can be had more easily.

A painfully slow game - however it happens.

[BLueRibbon]

I really like the idea of different strategies based on region.

However, I would focus more on countries that export their hysteria, because they're poisoning the world.

[weird.organisms]

I think these are great ideas.

People already think kids cannot consent just like slaves who aren't allowed to make their own decisions, so starting there would be putting us at a bad position.

I think stating it as an orientation could be better, as this is just how homosexuality became more mainstream and eventually accepted.

[JGHeaven]

I think the bigoted hate against pedophiles has complicated roots and causes that are difficult to unpick.

In the west there is a history or prudism that has persisted, but has over time loosened its grip steadily over time.
We've gone from panic at the thought of an exposed ankle or a kiss in public, to shorter dresses and PDA (public display's of affection).
We still tut at school skirts being too short and still complain about too much public affection, but it has been a slow and steady change.

Related to that prudism is anything not plain and pure. Gay/lesbian sex, inter-racial sex, multi-party sex, age gap sex, kinky sex (BDSM for example). These have also loosened, some more than others. Age gap relationships persist as something not widely accepted but people are talking about it more as an issue, asking why are people so reactive to age gaps? I think as these trends continue and age gap relationships become more normal, then it will start to ease pressure on the edges such as the sexuality of the elderly and young.

It's a slow moving animal, but I do think in the west that pedophilia will become absorbed into a broader age-gap sexual movement and stop being so taboo.

In the East it's less taboo in many cultures already. The pedophile hysteria is a western thing and will be relatively short lived in the grander scheme of things.

I think right now it serves a purpose beyond just historic prushishness. The west is on the decline, whether we like it or not. The 20th century was the century of the west but the 21st century is definitely the century of the east. As part of that decline there is anger and frustration, nobody likes to accept that their world of plenty is slipping, and that anger needs an outlet. Much of it is aimed at immigrants and foreigners but some of it flows out to other groups out of desperation to find someone or something to blame. It could have been the disabled, I think they will become targets as the frustration of the inevitable decline grows. But for now that frustration is being targeted at groups such as pedophiles, not for any logical reason, just because they're there and nobody is stopping them hating this group. It is such a nonsense group to target though, I think over the next decade that focus will shift onto other groups that are easier to blame such as the disabled and poor. They'll be blamed for being a drain on society, as will traveling communities and some faiths. This has played out before. I think as part of this shift, pedophiles will get more breathing room and as the influence of the east takes over then pedophile hysteria will go the same way as the witch trials.

[Learning to undeny]

Age gap relationships persist as something not widely accepted but people are talking about it more as an issue, asking why are people so reactive to age gaps? I think as these trends continue and age gap relationships become more normal, then it will start to ease pressure on the edges such as the sexuality of the elderly and young.

It's a slow moving animal, but I do think in the west that pedophilia will become absorbed into a broader age-gap sexual movement and stop being so taboo.

That's a likely possibility. Age-gap relationships are very common, so if the pedo hysteria extends to them, there's going to be a movement in the opposite direction.

I really like the idea of different strategies based on region.

However, I would focus more on countries that export their hysteria, because they're poisoning the world.

Yeah sure. And I believe the contact debate will take place mainly in these countries. But I wonder if something can be done in other places that has an effect in countries like the UK. For example, spreading a different way to think about minor atrraction that's unthinkable in the UK but viable elsewhere in Europe. So that in the UK they are forced to confront either neighbour cultures or their own hysteria.

[weird.organisms]

I think the bigoted hate against pedophiles has complicated roots and causes that are difficult to unpick.

In the west there is a history or prudism that has persisted, but has over time loosened its grip steadily over time.
We've gone from panic at the thought of an exposed ankle or a kiss in public, to shorter dresses and PDA (public display's of affection).
We still tut at school skirts being too short and still complain about too much public affection, but it has been a slow and steady change.

Related to that prudism is anything not plain and pure. Gay/lesbian sex, inter-racial sex, multi-party sex, age gap sex, kinky sex (BDSM for example). These have also loosened, some more than others. Age gap relationships persist as something not widely accepted but people are talking about it more as an issue, asking why are people so reactive to age gaps? I think as these trends continue and age gap relationships become more normal, then it will start to ease pressure on the edges such as the sexuality of the elderly and young.

It's a slow moving animal, but I do think in the west that pedophilia will become absorbed into a broader age-gap sexual movement and stop being so taboo.

In time I can see this being the same as the aforementioned discrimination. Eventually it will die down.
They're going after MAPs just the same as all the other groups they've targeted, they've all failed.
I think they're scared and aggressively fighting to have someone to oppress-including children. These people never gained anything by allowing people to do as they please-a typical trait of aggressive and cruel people.

Honestly I think that's why they're in such a scramble to put a stop to age differences. They can see the pattern that their predecessors have made, they can see MAPs have safe spaces, kids are getting into porn and having safe spaces. MAPs too have safe spaces online. This is terrifying to people who only seek to oppress and dominate. It's part of the reason antis are so against children having privacy or a life of their own. They cannot control them-or not as easily-if they have outlets for their feelings, can get information and love from others who do not have that same control (nor want it), and by feeling good about themselves.

So with all of this hysteria i see it as a sign of progress-slow progress but progress.