Fragment interrogated by MrGirl

[WavesInEternity]

The only thing I really disagree with you is on your belief that AOC should be lowered to 12. I don't think it should exist at all.

I noticed a lot of hebephiles will argue AOC should be lowered to 12... which is unsurprisingly convenient for them.

I also had that initial reaction (despite being preferentially hebephilic myself), but the author of the 16/12 framework, BLueRibbon, is a pedohebephile with an age of attraction of 8 to 14... so the law is hardly ideal from his point of view. Of course, people who have an age of attraction with at least some overlap with the proposed framework are more likely to be sympathetic to it, but any MAP has good reasons to support it regardless.

The crucial idea is that the proposed framework isn't intended as the final goal of our reform movement, but only as a first step. What I've personally argued is that our first aim as MAPtivists regarding legal reform should be to change laws pragmatically in at least one jurisdiction just enough that positive AMSC can occur on a sufficiently wide scale for convincing academic research to be done.

You have to keep in mind that legal reform has to be pragmatic. We can't hope to immediately change the law to something that the vast majority of people everywhere would consider unacceptable. Suggesting the total abolition of the age of consent would have antis argue that we want to "fuck babies" and the like. PIE tried arguing for an age of consent of 4, and it was one of the things that really got them burned in the media and popular opinion.

[Meiwaku_Mailing_Girl]

The only thing I really disagree with you is on your belief that AOC should be lowered to 12. I don't think it should exist at all.

I noticed a lot of hebephiles will argue AOC should be lowered to 12... which is unsurprisingly convenient for them.

I also had that initial reaction (despite being preferentially hebephilic myself), but the author of the 16/12 framework, BLueRibbon, is a pedohebephile with an age of attraction of 8 to 14... so the law is hardly ideal from his point of view. Of course, people who have an age of attraction with at least some overlap with the proposed framework are more likely to be sympathetic to it, but any MAP has good reasons to support it regardless.

The crucial idea is that the proposed framework isn't intended as the final goal of our reform movement, but only as a first step. What I've personally argued is that our first aim as MAPtivists regarding legal reform should be to change laws pragmatically in at least one jurisdiction just enough that positive AMSC can occur on a sufficiently wide scale for convincing academic research to be done.

You have to keep in mind that legal reform has to be pragmatic. We can't hope to immediately change the law to something that the vast majority of people everywhere would consider unacceptable. Suggesting the total abolition of the age of consent would have antis argue that we want to "fuck babies" and the like. PIE tried arguing for an age of consent of 4, and it was one of the things that really got them burned in the media and popular opinion.

I do consider AOC being lowered to be a progressive move, so the proposal has my support.

[Justincredible]

https://fstube.net/w/mr65XF5wBrygg4VGjAccb5

Give me some brutally honest feedback.

I don't feel it went well.

I plan on doing my own reflection podcast.

Wow, wow, wow.. what a riveting and fascinating discussion. I just listened to the whole thing and hung and every word. I think you held your own very well.

You were articulate, measured and able to navigate some pretty tough questions that we all must confront. And really highlights the dilemma of being a MAP.

First, let me say that I was aware of MrGirl before this interview. And I've gone down a couple rabbit holes on him in the past.
My best guess is that he is, at the very least, someone who has struggled with his attractions to minors and/or had AMSC when he was a kid/teen.

Are you aware of the "Cuties" video that he made? .. where basically he posted a review of the Netflix movie cuties. And admitted that the reason it's so controversial is that it makes the viewer feel sexual attraction toward these girls. To which he includes himself.

I looked up the YouTube video so I could get his quote right.. and I'm going to provide the link.

https://youtu.be/iERNdjDlqcE?si=_VZZeFk4kQN0mwMd

In the first two minutes of his review he acknowledges that the movie attempts to make you sexually aroused by these 11 yr old girls.. and for him, he admits that it succeeded.

He got a bunch of backlash for that review. And there's been a few other places that he's discussed these topics, also on Destiny's channel (the blue haired twitch streamer)

Anyways, all of this is to say that I think one of the reasons this was such a poignant interview with you is because I think he gets it .. but is also playing the role of devil's advocate. And asking the really tough questions that we've all have to wrestle with.

He brought up some good points about our potential partners aging out of our attraction range. And I think you did a great job acknowledging that and being honest about how those potential "utopian" situations could work.

I disagree with his one dimensional assessment that it's all about the power dynamic and we just like preying on vulnerable boys and girls.

i also disagree with equating AMSC to murder.. and it's like saying "well, I only murder once in awhile.. but I do all these other great things"

I understand exactly where you're thought process is in how you view and respect the boys you're interested in. I can tell you have a genuine empathy for them and a desire to be a positive influence in their lives. And while there is a sexual component to the way you feel, it doesn't come from a place of wanting to harm or exploit. I feel the EXACT same way!

I don't get off on seeing kids, or anyone for that matter, in pain. It's the exact opposite of that.

Because we know there are those out there that give us a bad name. But those aren't the true MAPS. Those are the guys that watch CP, but are also into animals, torture videos and these vile extreme type fetishes.

Anyways, I've probably gone on enough.

But I just want to commend you on being so well spoken under some pretty tough questioning. I really, really enjoy listening to you. You have a great vocabulary, tone and delivery.

I'll be looking forward to hearing more from you!

Haha I also got tripped up for a minute when you said it happened in 2003.. I was thinking damn I thought the US court system was slow.. 20 years is a long time to be dealing with a case

Anyways, thank you so much for your courage and being such a brave and articulate voice for us. Keep fighting the good fight!

[WavesInEternity]

I disagree with his one dimensional assessment that it's all about the power dynamic and we just like preying on vulnerable boys and girls.

I'm increasingly led to think that the "power dynamic" is of some critical importance, but not at all in the way the antis believe it is. There is much in common between AMSC and consensual Dominance & submission. BDSM is profoundly misunderstood by the population at large. Perhaps the one thing that people generally don't realize that they should understand is that the submissive partner ultimately has more power in the relationship than the Dominant one.

On the one hand, the Dominant partner directs the activity and makes the surface decisions. On the other hand, it's the submissive partner that has the last say as to whether or not the activity should take place and continue, and it is also that partner's feelings and reactions that are most central to the experience as a whole. The Dominant partner doesn't enjoy simply having "control" over his/her partner, and indeed never really does have such control. What the Dominant finds most arousing is the sexual connection that is built with the submissive, the depth of mutual understanding and shared feelings, and his/her ablity to create a situation that the submissive will enjoy. As a Dom, the best thing that can happoen to me is for my partner to tell me after a sex session that she had a really great time.

The "power dynamic" in AMSC, like that in a Dom/sub relationship, is similar in nature to the relationship between mentor and student, rockstar and groupie, even parent and child to some extent. Indeed, there's a lot of overlap between AMSC and those types of interpersonal bonds. And indeed, there can be harmful excesses in all of them when the partner with outwardly "more power" is abusive.

I don't get off on seeing kids, or anyone for that matter, in pain. It's the exact opposite of that.

Because we know there are those out there that give us a bad name. But those aren't the true MAPS.

In specific sexual circumstances, I can feel aroused looking at my partner in pain, although the younger the girl, the less sadistic I am. I'm just as true a MAP as you are. There's a lot of variation among MAPs, and some of us do have sadism as a fetish. That doesn't mean either that I'm going to cause harm to anyone. I can fully satisfy that part of my sexuality with consenting partners, and I'd definitely be immensely cautious about ever engaging in BDSM with a younger girl. Also, despite my sexually sadistic desires, everything you write below is something I can deeply relate to:

I can tell you have a genuine empathy for them and a desire to be a positive influence in their lives. And while there is a sexual component to the way you feel, it doesn't come from a place of wanting to harm or exploit. I feel the EXACT same way!

[Fragment]

The only thing I really disagree with you is on your belief that AOC should be lowered to 12. I don't think it should exist at all.

I noticed a lot of hebephiles will argue AOC should be lowered to 12... which is unsurprisingly convenient for them.

Philosophically I can agree with lower, but I also think that 12 has a lot going for it. It's roughly the age of Piaget's final development stage, the formal operational stage. It roughly coincides with the more adult sex drive that comes with puberty. It's the age where kids are considered to have acquired a base level understanding of the world from elementary school and are ready to move into more advanced thinking at secondary school. It's the age often quoted as being when kids can make their own decisions regarding medical consent.

On a practical level I'd like to see the actual consequences of limit at 12 before moving it any lower. I'm not so confident of my pro-c position that I think I couldn't be wrong.

[Fragment]

Oh and the age of criminal responsibility is 10-12 in most of the Anglo world.

[Bookshelf]

Oh and the age of criminal responsibility is 10-12 in most of the Anglo world.

"We're going to try you as an adult for this case because we believe you understand the long-term damage caused by your actions and have the ability to comprehend the law, while showing confident signs of intent and and high enough levels of mental comprehension. Also off topic, but you're so mentally deficient that you'll be traumatized by a handjob. Good luck."

[mrlolicon93]

God that was extremely hard to listen to and i hated the way he spoke to you.

[Fragment]

God that was extremely hard to listen to and i hated the way he spoke to you.

Sorry, I shouldn't have let him speak to me that way. I was too passive.

The biggest problem was my expectations going in. Although my second interviewer was much easier, I also made less mistakes myself.

[mrlolicon93]

God that was extremely hard to listen to and i hated the way he spoke to you.

Sorry, I shouldn't have let him speak to me that way. I was too passive.

The biggest problem was my expectations going in. Although my second interviewer was much easier, I also made less mistakes myself.

I listened to that last night and thought it was better handled imo.