MAP Forum

Fragment wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:52 am
In my experience, contact optimists typically seem to have a lot more interaction with kids.

So? More interactions with kids doesn't mean you have more empathy for them. My point was that if you're complaining about it all the time then that tells me that sex is on the forefront of your mind. Their activism is all based on an effort to justify and satisfy their sexual needs. Their efforts would come across as more genuine if they weren't a pedophile.

stropa wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:16 am So? More interactions with kids doesn't mean you have more empathy for them.

Typically empathy is best developed by exposure. It's not universal, of course, everyone is different. But I see the most dangerously idealized versions of kids expressed by people that have the least interaction with them. Both pro-c and anti-c. There was even a study on this that showed that MAPs interacting with children can help them develop more realistic ideas about child sexuality rather than viewing children in the abstract.

stropa wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:16 amMy point was that if you're complaining about it all the time then that tells me that sex is on the forefront of your mind.

Or it could be that the consequences are so draconian and disastrous that even though it's only a small part of the picture it requires a high degree of focus. I love eating pizza with boys. I love playing video games with boys. I love going to water parks with boys. I love discussing philosophy with boys and seeing their views develop. All of that is already legal. Sexual contact in the west results in a prison sentence decades long. In terms of politics, of course it's going to be a point of focus, even though in relationships it is not.

stropa wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:16 amTheir activism is all based on an effort to justify and satisfy their sexual needs. Their efforts would come across as more genuine if they weren't a pedophile.

Well obviously. Heterosexuals arguing for gay marriage were more genuine than homosexuals. Cis people arguing for puberty blockers are more genuine than trans people. Having a vested interest doesn't mean what you're doing is somehow immoral.

I believe that MAPs should be arguing for the right to live authentically as themselves, having relationships with minors that are as intimate as possible while still respecting consent and avoiding harm.

You, like many, seem to see it as a zero sum. Either MAPs are happy, or children are. If it was truly a binary choice like that, I can understand prioritizing children. But why should we think it's zero sum? Is adult-adult sex zero sum? Every time a married couple fuck there is a winner and a loser? The husband (and sometimes the wife) has sex on the forefront of their mind and are just trying to justify their sexual needs?

For me, and for many BLs, a top tier fantasy is, upon request, performing oral sex on a boy where he enjoys it, and without necessarily getting off myself. Obviously that's not a pure act of self-sacrifice, my own sexual desire is tied up in that. But it's hardly an act focused purely on "satiating my own selfish sexual desire" either. "I want to do whatever the boy wants me to do" is hardly "lacking in empathy".

Whether they want sex or not with children, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't care about kids. If a child and an adult just enjoy sex with each other, then so be it. Sex is a good gateway to build bonds/connections. There aren't a lot of people who genuinely looks at people as sex objects besides people who sexual assault other people and stuff. A lot of people just view other people as sexual subjects, whether that is outside of an established relationship or not.

I find that my empathy levels in general are significantly reduced by MAP hysteria, at least in relation to other adults.

After seeing terrible things happen to MAP friends, and some things that are not related, I feel like I could walk past an adult dying on the street and just ignore them. That's not OK, but it's what happens when you make someone feel completely isolated from society.

I've always tried holding onto the belief that you can reframe another's thought patterning over time I've you are patient, loving, and sincere in your motivation. Maybe I'm deluding myself?
What always strikes me as odd are the young men who have never had sex or even their first kiss yet they compulsively fixate on fantasies of children, having no good example set to follow but the pornography so readily available as their only outlet for release.

Having empathy for children is not a yes or no question, it's a question of right vs. wrong.
It is each persons duty to ensure everyone has access to developing skills for nurturing empathy, to maintain a healthy child-friendly society.
Good parenting works, and as soon as the world values good parenting, rape will become almost unheard of.
If science proves that education & rehabilitation doesn't work someone ping me a memo so I can give up believing thought patterns can be reframed.