MAP Forum

MICHAEL KNOWLES (HOST): The Department of Justice says there were one thousand victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse. But as I just mentioned, there are two very different groups.

There were the underage girls, girls who were underage. Some of the girls were 16. At least one of the girls was was as young as 14. That's bad. That's what has people's attention and ire. According to the Department of Justice, of the one thousand victims of Epstein, 36 of them were underage. That's the highest number I can find — from a credible source or a somewhat credible. So DOJ is not the most credible, I guess, but, you know, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. That means that one thousand or more of the so-called Jeffrey Epstein victims were not underage. They were young women. Could have been in their 20s, could have not they were — they were young. They weren't in their 40s. I don't think it was Epstein's type exactly. But they also weren't 17 or 16, and they certainly weren't five. They were young women. So in that case they were prostitutes who were hired to do a job. They were not groomed as children. They were not underage. Their prostitution is still illegal, at least in some parts of this country, but that's very different to me.

Even on this, the Labour peer disagrees. He does not believe, despite the conviction for soliciting child prostitutes, and the numerous allegations that surfaced before his death, that Epstein was a paedophile. He sees this as a disingenuous interpretation of Epstein’s modus operandi, which he thinks was to host parties for financial associates where young models, mostly adults, were available for sex and would often be well paid…

…The position he has shared with friends is as categorical as it is incendiary. He believes he has been singled out, but also that Epstein was effectively a “swinger’’, someone who was addicted to open relationships and who procured young female models to parties for the enjoyment of rich men. This does not, Mandelson believes, make Epstein a paedophile, despite his criminal conviction for child sex offences.