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G@yWad69 wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 10:39 am Now this. A young teen is biologically identical to a legal adult except for a few small differences due to the ongoing puberty.

In this case, I'd have to agree with BLueRibbon on there being a semantic issue.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 3:40 pm Biological adult definition-“The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction.” Pulled straight from the dictionary

Going by your stated definition, and especially your use of the word "identical", you're implying that this is a transition that happens instantly. That as soon as a person produces their first sperm or egg, they are indistinguishable from an adult. We know that's not true just by looking.

But here's the thing, language itself is a social construct. This is all hinging on how you define the word "adult". Even if it was centuries ago, definitions in the dictionary had to be arbitrarily chosen by someone. Furthermore, I could go on to say no one is identical to themselves from even the day before, because we are always growing and changing.

But either way, this is all petty. We agree with your main point. That teenagers' maturity is being artificially delayed by people's inability to recognize that maturity.

RoosterDance wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 5:53 am

G@yWad69 wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 10:39 am Now this. A young teen is biologically identical to a legal adult except for a few small differences due to the ongoing puberty.

In this case, I'd have to agree with BLueRibbon on there being a semantic issue.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 3:40 pm Biological adult definition-“The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction.” Pulled straight from the dictionary

Going by your stated definition, and especially your use of the word "identical", you're implying that this is a transition that happens instantly. That as soon as a person produces their first sperm or egg, they are indistinguishable from an adult. We know that's not true just by looking.

But here's the thing, language itself is a social construct. This is all hinging on how you define the word "adult". Even if it was centuries ago, definitions in the dictionary had to be arbitrarily chosen by someone. Furthermore, I could go on to say no one is identical to themselves from even the day before, because we are always growing and changing.

But either way, this is all petty. We agree with your main point. That teenagers' maturity is being artificially delayed by people's inability to recognize that maturity.

But they ARE biologically indisguinshible from an adult? A 13 year old can get someone pregnant or get preganant just like a 40 year old can. The act of getting someone pregant or getting pregnant is biology. They dont look the same, but you never finish growing and changing.So what if a 13 year old doesnt look the same as a 20 year old? A 20 year old doesnt look the same as a 30 year old. A 30 year old doesnt look the same as a 40 year old. Are we gonna say that NONE of these people are “adults” because they will always look different and function different a couple years later? The body is constantly changing and growing. The transition is not instant. It takes a couple years of preperation ages 9-12 of your body doing things like growing pubic hair and growing in height and adjusting hormones and etc, by the time someone has produced sperm or had their period for the first time. The process of transtioning to a biological young adult is complete. No one ever said it was an instant transformation except you, and if you genuinely belive it happens instantly, your ignoring the couple of years beforehand of rigourous transformation and growth for the sake of the argument. Once they have completely finished puberty, the process of transitioning to a fully grown adult is complete.

I agree that language is arbitrary. But if we are just gonna ignore the modern and most commonly used definition of words because its all “arbitrary”.
, then I can call Micheal Jackson Latino, Donald Trump a woman, my bed is now food.Since its all arbitrary and made up and always changing then I can say up is down and left is right correct?

Its not petty. Its just using the most common and modern definition of a word. The most common and modern defnitiion of the words “biological adult” is someone who has reached puberty. The most common social and legal definition of an “adult” is someone who has finished puberty or reached the age of majority in their country. Why is it petty that I am arguing that teenagers match the first definition, when they objectively do? Saying its petty to call a biological adult a biological adult based on the most popular and commonly used definition in the modern day is like saying im petty for saying that a trans woman is biologically male(DO NOT take this out of context PLEASE). Yes trans woman are socialized female and legally female but it would be a blatant lie to say that they arent biologically male and it is “petty” to call them such just because modern societies definitions are arbitrary and always changing.(once again, dont take this out of context, I respect trans peoples identites, besides I am one)

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:47 pm They dont look the same,

How you look is determined by your biology (among other factors). "Identical" means that they are the same. If you say they don't look the same, you are therefore saying they are not completely biologically identical.

Debating semantics is always petty (to me). That includes your stated examples. What seems popular and common to you, may not be popular and common elsewhere. Or even popular and common a year from now. For example, the definition of adult as pulled from the cambridge dictionary:

a person or animal that has grown to full size and strength

What dictionary did you even use? Dictionaries typically don't define phrases such as "biological adult." They usually only define single words.

RoosterDance wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:11 pm

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:47 pm They dont look the same,

How you look is determined by your biology (among other factors). "Identical" means that they are the same. If you say they don't look the same, you are therefore saying they are not completely biologically identical.

Debating semantics is always petty (to me). That includes your stated examples. What seems popular and common to you, may not be popular and common elsewhere. Or even popular and common a year from now. For example, the definition of adult as pulled from the cambridge dictionary:

a person or animal that has grown to full size and strength

What dictionary did you even use? Dictionaries typically don't define phrases such as "biological adult." They usually only define single words.

Yes, biologically, everyone looks unique and different. Thats why I want to know what your standard of “biological adult” is, because theres going to be someone who is well over the age of 18 who doesnt fit that standard

I didnt use a dictionary. I just searched up “when does an organism become a biological adult” and that was the most common definition.

I have a question. What do you think is soooo complex and sooo difficult to grasp about adulthood that the average teen cant handle it? Because I am a barely legal adult, recently crossing the magical special arbritary number of 18. And all I can say is, this shit is NOT difficult, I couldve easily done all this 5 years ago, if not more.

Is it paying bills? All that requires is basic accountabillity, its not diffcult to just set up autopay to make it even easier

Is it working full time? Teens already have to get up as early as 5 or 6 in the morning to get ready to work 8 hours straight, 5 days a week, doing miserable shit that they hate. The only difference is that with a full time job, you get paid.

Is it starting a family? I am not advocating for anyone to start a family if they believe they arent ready. But if they are able to finacially suppirt themselves and are emotionally capable, why shouldnt they be allowed to do things like get married and have kids? Its not like its impossible, there are plenty of teen parents who are wonderful, and plenty of legal adult parents who are ass, and for the teen parents that do fail, a lot of it lies in the way that they are socialized and their lack of legal rights. Teens have been capable of starting families succesfully for centuries until very recently. Which shows that their recent incapabillity is a social and legal issue, not anythibg innate to teenagehood.

Seriously, yall are so addament about blocking teens from being treated and respected as adults. “Oh they arent ready” “oh they arent mature” how the hell are they supposed to mature if you never let them? And if you go even deeper, what about adulthood is so “mature” in the first place that the average teen cant be taught how to handle it, google search it, or figure it out first hand. Name one thing. The majority of Americans have, really, really, low expectations of teens and really, really high expectations of legal adults when in reality, the only real differnece between them is socialization and the law. Yall act like turning 18 is some big biological change that transform you from a stupid immature kid to a big grown capable adult, when in reality, becoming mature comes from being allowed to grow and develop and being given basic responsibillity and accountabillity.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 3:40 pm Biological adult definition-“The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction.” Pulled straight from the dictionary

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:38 pm I didnt use a dictionary. I just searched up “when does an organism become a biological adult” and that was the most common definition.

But I see now. You used Wikipedia. I like Wikipedia. But it's not some infallible, omnipotent source that everybody agrees with.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:38 pm I have a question. What do you think is soooo complex and sooo difficult to grasp about adulthood that the average teen cant handle it?
...
Seriously, yall are so addament about blocking teens from being treated and respected as adults.

I'm not saying these things and neither is anyone else here. You're delving into the conceptual level again and we (mostly) all already agree with your stance on these concepts.

I was saying that getting hung up over definitions is fruitless.

RoosterDance wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:55 pm

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 3:40 pm Biological adult definition-“The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction.” Pulled straight from the dictionary

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:38 pm I didnt use a dictionary. I just searched up “when does an organism become a biological adult” and that was the most common definition.

But I see now. You used Wikipedia. I like Wikipedia. But it's not some infallible, omnipotent source that everybody agrees with.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:38 pm I have a question. What do you think is soooo complex and sooo difficult to grasp about adulthood that the average teen cant handle it?
...
Seriously, yall are so addament about blocking teens from being treated and respected as adults.

I'm not saying these things and neither is anyone else here. You're delving into the conceptual level again and we (mostly) all already agree with your stance on these concepts.

I was saying that getting hung up over definitions is fruitless.

Wikipedia isnt the only source that agrees with this definition. And I was using the biological defintion of adulthood, not the social or legal definition. Yall are gettibg hung up over the social and legal definitions of adulthood, which is arguably just as bad as me getting “hung up” over the biological definition, which is arguably worse because it leads you to having very low expectations and respect for teens

Also, its common sense. If teens arent biologically adults, then what are they biologically, adolescents? You could argue that sure, but why is it that teens have only been “adolecents” in the past couple centuries of the 300,000 years of human existance if it such a natural part of human existance. And how come pretty much no other species on earth had this concept? And how come adolcents isnt a universal concept? Most tribes have adulthood start when puberty starts, aka, parts of humanity that arent influenced by modern social tradition. Adolecents is such a shaky concept because 1.Its not universal. 2.Its extremely recent. 3. Its definition is constantly changing. Now adays adolecents is more similar to childhood 2.0 then to a transition phase. And the definition of adolecents has expaneded to even include fully grown adults in their mid 20s. And if you argue that teens are biologically children, thats even worse, as the only thing seperating a biological “child” from a biological “adult” is modern day laws. Which have no impact on biology and arent universal and have only existed ver recently in human history. Using basic common sense, they only thing that they can be biologically is an adult, which makes sense, since they functioning on the base level the exact same way as everyone over 18.

Alas, you seem to not be understanding me. I will end it there or we'll just be going in circles.

Instead, I'm gong to divert a bit.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:47 pm I agree that language is arbitrary. But if we are just gonna ignore the modern and most commonly used definition of words because its all “arbitrary”.
, then I can call Micheal Jackson Latino, Donald Trump a woman, my bed is now food.Since its all arbitrary and made up and always changing then I can say up is down and left is right correct?

Correct indeed. It was a fun thought experiment to figure out ways that you can say these and it be true. Or at least true to someone.

You can call Michael Jackson Latino... If you met him at a certain point in his life and were the sort of person to call everyone ambiguously brown a latino.

Your bed is food... to insects that eat cloth.

If I'm facing you, point to my right, and say "this is left." Is that right?

As for Donald Trump being a woman... well, with the way things are going, that might happen some day. You never know.

RoosterDance wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 11:29 pm Alas, you seem to not be understanding me. I will end it there or we'll just be going in circles.

Instead, I'm gong to divert a bit.

G@yWad69 wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:47 pm I agree that language is arbitrary. But if we are just gonna ignore the modern and most commonly used definition of words because its all “arbitrary”.
, then I can call Micheal Jackson Latino, Donald Trump a woman, my bed is now food.Since its all arbitrary and made up and always changing then I can say up is down and left is right correct?

Correct indeed. It was a fun thought experiment to figure out ways that you can say these and it be true. Or at least true to someone.

You can call Michael Jackson Latino... If you met him at a certain point in his life and were the sort of person to call everyone ambiguously brown a latino.

Your bed is food... to insects that eat cloth.

If I'm facing you, point to my right, and say "this is left." Is that right?

As for Donald Trump being a woman... well, with the way things are going, that might happen some day. You never know.

So your gonna just dismiss my entire argument because “words dont really mean anything anyways.” If anything, THATS petty.

Listen, I like you and everyone else on this site, so I really dont want to keep yapping about this if we clearly dont agree and cause bad blood. Lets just agree to disagree

G@yWad69 wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2025 3:27 pm Lets just agree to disagree

Agreed!