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Fragment wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:23 am Been thinking about grooming a bit more. Read this link.

https://www.ceopeducation.co.uk/parents ... -grooming/

Building a relationship.
Grooming is about making a child think that abuse and exploitation is normal, or that they have no choice. Offenders do this by building a relationship and emotional connection with the child.

What might be happening?

• trying to convince the child that they are in a loving relationship as boyfriend or girlfriend
• relationship building over a short space of time – not seeking to be a boyfriend or girlfriend, but to make a quick connection. May be through flattery or pretending to have lots in common
• becoming a mentor to the young person, making them think they are someone who can help them or teach them things
• becoming a dominant figure in a young person’s life, perhaps by having a relationship with their parent or carer
• building a relationship with the child’s family, making them think that they are someone who can be trusted with the child.

Gaining power over a child.
In all grooming, the offender will try to gain power over the child, to manipulate or coerce them.

What might be happening?

• emotionally intimidating the child by threatening to withdraw their affection or saying things like, ‘if you loved me you would’
• telling the child there will be terrible consequences for refusing to do something sexual
• mimicking love. If a young person feels they are in love, this gives an offender power
• developing a dependency on drugs or alcohol so they can control them through addiction
• meeting a need, such as emotional needs, shelter, money

Keeping it secret.
In all cases offenders will try to make sure that the child doesn’t tell anyone else about the abuse.

What might be happening?

• telling the child that no one will believe them
• threatening to share secrets that the child has told them
• telling children that they have done something illegal and will be in trouble
• using the above power advantages against the child

To be honest, many of those behaviors do sound coercive. The ones in blue, in opinions aren’t (necessarily) grooming though, just indicative of care and affection.

Funnily just talking to a minor and showing interest is seen as grooming now though. If it was used to refer to coercive behaviors like on this list I’d have much less of a problem with it.

The term was always going to be set up for abuse, especially for people that have a problem even with adult age-gap couples, given how loaded it is even when applied to adult-minor couples. And to be honest, it doesn't even have to exist. We already have terminology to describe such coercive behaviour, and they're called "coercion" and "manipulation". No need to make up a new term to describe an already-existing phenomenon.

You might find it interesting how the term "grooming" in this context originated from a 1980s report to describe seduction of girls by men. So the trappings for what it is now were already there.

Looking at grooming narrowly defined like this, though, it makes me think that many cases of non-violent AMSC clearly don’t even involve grooming.

In which case what is the explanation for why they’re abusive? I thought grooming was the only reason a minor would think they’re consenting.

Fragment wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:23 am https://www.ceopeducation.co.uk/parents ... -grooming/

Building a relationship.
Grooming is about making a child think that abuse and exploitation is normal, or that they have no choice. Offenders do this by building a relationship and emotional connection with the child
...

Gaining power over a child.
In all grooming, the offender will try to gain power over the child, to manipulate or coerce them
...

Keeping it secret.
In all cases offenders will try to make sure that the child doesn’t tell anyone else about the abuse
...

Total bullshit.
Having a false idea of "innocence", they construct false concepts that support the false idea. The purpose of this concept is to dehumanize the standard friendly, mentoring, romantic communication between two people. The fact that the ageist dogma against intergenerational relationships has become entrenched in society it has forced society to come up with an "explanation" that should instill why normal adult behavior is "not normal".

When people meet and communicate, they always try to show friendliness. Both have a choice to stop communicating or continue (especially online). It is society's rejection of inter-age relationships that forces them to keep the secret, and not the adult's malicious intent. On the contrary, if these relationships could be open, it would increase the safety of minors, allowing them to pay attention to and respond to truly dangerous behavior and not ruin healthy relationships

Rather than see what they're saying as bullshit, it makes me think that "a lot of people that get arrested for contact offenses aren't grooming".

If "gaining power" and "keeping secrets" are requirements for grooming, then there's a lot of people having illegal relationships where they don't groom at all.

Fragment wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 2:12 am If "gaining power" and "keeping secrets" are requirements for grooming, then there's a lot of people having illegal relationships where they don't groom at all.

This concept dehumanizes and criminalizes any normal 1 on 1 inter-age communication. It does not allow any personal attention, compliment, gifts, etc. All of this will be regarded as malicious bribery to "gain power".

When a Scottish minister complimented a 16-year-old boy on Instagram, his behaviour was branded unacceptable and he was forced to resign.

Groom for marriage long distance for 1000 days or groom for a/s/l and pics? subtle differences.
Youth/Adult romance is perfectly legal insofar as there is no sexually motivated intimacy. You can even educate a child about things, so long as you're not sexually aroused while doing it.
I think mentoring and even wooing is healthy insofar as a means to an end, nurturing a child's self-discovery, not nurturing selfish escapades of fancy.
Is it a meaningful concept? To me it is deeply meaningful. Never had any complaints.
Innocence should be exalted and glorified, it's rule #7 of the Girl-Lover Manifesto.

Anyone pedi repost that’s relevant:

Talking to a minor is not grooming.

Talking to a minor about sex is not grooming.

Talking to a minor sexually is not grooming.

Showing overt sexual interest in a minor is not grooming.

Doing something sexual with a minor after building a relationship with them is not grooming.

Grooming refers to a specific type of coercive behavior, usually threatening or deceptive in nature. It does not mean "any interaction between a minor an unrelated adult".

I'm shocked in my realization that I am guilty of none of those things in the original post. Thank you for enlightening me, I had to read the whole thread 3 times before it even started to sink in, that's how slow I am sometimes. I'm sorry about that.
I just always felt the word "grooming" sounded fun, and nice, and cool.

Fragment wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:28 am Anyone pedi repost that’s relevant:

Talking to a minor is not grooming.

Talking to a minor about sex is not grooming.

Talking to a minor sexually is not grooming.

Showing overt sexual interest in a minor is not grooming.

Doing something sexual with a minor after building a relationship with them is not grooming.


Grooming refers to a specific type of coercive behavior, usually threatening or deceptive in nature. It does not mean "any interaction between a minor an unrelated adult".

In addition
Honest friendship and romance with a minor is not "grooming".
Honest compliments, care and gifts are not "grooming"

I don’t like the term because a strictly platonic friendship between an adult and child can be misconstrued as grooming. If it needs to be used, it should be applied after the fact to behaviors that culminated in unwanted sexual contact.