MAP Forum

A ban on parent-child incest is about respecting the difficulty a minor in that situation would face and making it easier for them to seek accountability from their parent if they want to.

Lennon72 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:51 pm So, all right then. The child can press charges "if they want to". This seems to imply that if the experience was positive for them, that they can simply refuse to press charges or even refuse to report it. Is that what you are saying?

Fragment wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 6:00 pm The minor themselves has the power.

FairBlueLove wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 8:53 pm How are cases treated where the minor is a scoundrel which wants to take advantage of or frame an adult?

Under this plan, yes. If the 12-15 year old doesn't press charges then police, parents, teachers, etc cannot report the crime and have it prosecuted. The minor themselves has the power. Once in court the prosecution only needs to prove that the minor was "taken advantage of", which is a lower level of proof than "rape".

Because it's a moderate plan, we think that <12 year old kids might have a hard time to press charges by themselves, so the current system would remain to protect them. We also think that pressing charges against a parent would be hard, hence the decision on incest.

The plan is about trying to respect the voice of adolescents so they can make more of their own decisions around sex, including with adult partners, while still protecting them from egregious power disparities.

Lennon72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:40 am

Under this plan, yes. If the 12-15 year old doesn't press charges then police, parents, teachers, etc cannot report the crime and have it prosecuted. The minor themselves has the power. Once in court the prosecution only needs to prove that the minor was "taken advantage of", which is a lower level of proof than "rape".

Because it's a moderate plan, we think that <12 year old kids might have a hard time to press charges by themselves, so the current system would remain to protect them. We also think that pressing charges against a parent would be hard, hence the decision on incest.

The plan is about trying to respect the voice of adolescents so they can make more of their own decisions around sex, including with adult partners, while still protecting them from egregious power disparities.

Okay, I get what you are saying here. But from what I understand, the police can press charges even if the child says No. How can you be sure that would change if what you are proposing where to get enacted?

BLueRibbon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:03 am

Lennon72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:40 am

Under this plan, yes. If the 12-15 year old doesn't press charges then police, parents, teachers, etc cannot report the crime and have it prosecuted. The minor themselves has the power. Once in court the prosecution only needs to prove that the minor was "taken advantage of", which is a lower level of proof than "rape".

Because it's a moderate plan, we think that <12 year old kids might have a hard time to press charges by themselves, so the current system would remain to protect them. We also think that pressing charges against a parent would be hard, hence the decision on incest.

The plan is about trying to respect the voice of adolescents so they can make more of their own decisions around sex, including with adult partners, while still protecting them from egregious power disparities.

Okay, I get what you are saying here. But from what I understand, the police can press charges even if the child says No. How can you be sure that would change if what you are proposing where to get enacted?

If the adolescent says no, it's sexual assault or rape (depending on the act) under the same laws that protect adults.

Lennon72 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 4:50 am But what I am asking is this. If the child doesn't want to press charges, how can know that the police will not press charges instead. I would like to think that if the child says that he/she does not want to press charges that the police can't do anything about it. How does this pro-reform position ( if enacted into law ) assure us that the child's say is final?

Fragment wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:09 am

Lennon72 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 4:50 am But what I am asking is this. If the child doesn't want to press charges, how can know that the police will not press charges instead. I would like to think that if the child says that he/she does not want to press charges that the police can't do anything about it. How does this pro-reform position ( if enacted into law ) assure us that the child's say is final?

In the law it will say "this crime is only prosecutable upon complaint by the victim". If the DA tries to take a case to court without a written statement from the victim, then the perpetrator will be automatically found innocent. A complaint from parents is not sufficient, either.

Of course, if parents and police can convince the minor to testify then charges can be pressed and if you took advantage of them, you could be convicted. Even under 16/12 it'll be "safer" to avoid sexual contact with minors.

But it just means that the law will provide an exception for cases where both the adult and minor both felt it was consensual- without third parties being able to meddle. It stops AMSC from being a strict liability* offence. It's kind of like a Romeo and Juliet law, except that it applies at all ages.

*In criminal and civil law, strict liability is a standard of liability under which a person is legally responsible for the consequences flowing from an activity even in the absence of fault or criminal intent on the part of the defendant.

Lennon72 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:17 pm Okay, this sounds pretty good. Yet, I still have some concerns about this that I would like to address. Both cops and parents have been known to bully the children into pressing charges or saying things that are not true. How should that problem be tackled?