MAP Forum

Lennon72 wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 1:40 am I think this just shows how revolting people can be. The man served his time and should have been left alone. Of coarse asking " How is your daughter" does make one wonder what his intent was in asking. Still doesn't make what she did right.

Olivia2012 wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 6:45 pm No, she was definitely in the right. He got what was coming for him and it's absurd to call her the revolting one. Rape is disgusting, he is disgusting, and if that's the choice he decided to make it proves he was never capable of becoming better in the first place. Getting rid of him is more of a justice than anything

WavesInEternity wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 10:58 pm

Olivia2012 wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 6:45 pm No, she was definitely in the right. He got what was coming for him and it's absurd to call her the revolting one. Rape is disgusting, he is disgusting, and if that's the choice he decided to make it proves he was never capable of becoming better in the first place. Getting rid of him is more of a justice than anything

Olivia, while I fully understand your feelings regarding rape—actual rape involving violence, as in this case, not "statutory rape", of course—being a disgusting crime and the man discussed here being revolting (especially as evidenced by the way he reacted "bumping into" the mother), vigilante "justice" is never a solution. Think of how "paedophiles" are "hunted" by people who feel we're disgusting and all deserve to die.

Even if someone killed one of my loved ones, I should not be allowed to take justice into my own hands and kill the criminal after he served his sentence (or before/during for that matter). Although I might well feel like doing so.

No matter how serious the crime, no matter how terrible the criminal, no matter the intensity of our feelings, we shouldn't "kill bad people". In fact, I strongly oppose the death penalty altogether, and it's fortunately illegal where I live.

Never assume that someone can't repent and atone. I'm currently writing an article about my maternal grandfather. He repeatedly raped my mother when she was very young, which left her with horrific lifelong symptoms of rape trauma syndrome. He raped other girls, too. In part because of tough conversations with my mother, he gradually came to understand how much harm he had done. He converted to Christianity and spent the rest of his life trying to atone for his great sins, in part by being a wonderful grandfather to his many grandchildren, including myself and my two younger sisters.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am Facing punishment and/or realizing it was a bad thing to do will never make it better. Prison is supposed to make you truly understand the gravity of your actions so you don't do it again, it's kinda a punishment and light rehab imo.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am The fact he decided to act that way even after his prison sentence proves he doesn't care. He doesn't care for his victims, and he doesn't care about the consequences.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am Most MAPs haven't committed a crime and have no victims. The hate against maps is usually unreasonable, but anything he faced was totally warranted.

WavesInEternity wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 2:16 am

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am Facing punishment and/or realizing it was a bad thing to do will never make it better. Prison is supposed to make you truly understand the gravity of your actions so you don't do it again, it's kinda a punishment and light rehab imo.

Studies actually show that prison doesn't really work as rehabilitation. It's really just punishment and/or a means of taking dangerous people off the street. Scandinavian countries and some Indian states, among others, are moving away from a prison-centric penal system with great results.

My grandpa realizing that what he did was bad did "make things better". He mostly reconciled with my mother, dedicated a lot of energy to helping her in life, and he was an extremely positive part of my life and that of my sisters. I would have been much worse off without having known him, for instance if he had been killed or imprisoned for life (which, according to the law of the land, he deserved). My mother chose to pity and help him rather than hate and punish him, and it worked. I'm not saying that this is an exemplary model we should always follow, but it does show that the common assumption that the "abuser" or "rapist" is a "bad person" and always will be is misguided.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am The fact he decided to act that way even after his prison sentence proves he doesn't care. He doesn't care for his victims, and he doesn't care about the consequences.

A single off-hand remark doesn't warrant condemning someone to death, don't you think?

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am Most MAPs haven't committed a crime and have no victims. The hate against maps is usually unreasonable, but anything he faced was totally warranted.

What about those MAPs who have committed a crime? Should they all die? What if they say it was consensual? If the crime was "statutory rape"? What if the consent is ambiguous, as is often the case? Not to mention the very common belief that MAPs are "ticking time bombs" that will nearly all sexually assault a child at some point in their lives. Who has the right to decide who lives and who dies? Who knows whether or not the hatred is "reasonable"?

Here's a solution: we do away with hatred altogether, and we never murder anyone for their past actions. If they pose a clear and immediate danger to others, they should be taken off the streets. If they don't, true rehabilitation, not prison, is often the best option.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 2:28 am

WavesInEternity wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 2:16 am

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am Facing punishment and/or realizing it was a bad thing to do will never make it better. Prison is supposed to make you truly understand the gravity of your actions so you don't do it again, it's kinda a punishment and light rehab imo.

Studies actually show that prison doesn't really work as rehabilitation. It's really just punishment and/or a means of taking dangerous people off the street. Scandinavian countries and some Indian states, among others, are moving away from a prison-centric penal system with great results.

My grandpa realizing that what he did was bad did "make things better". He mostly reconciled with my mother, dedicated a lot of energy to helping her in life, and he was an extremely positive part of my life and that of my sisters. I would have been much worse off without having known him, for instance if he had been killed or imprisoned for life (which, according to the law of the land, he deserved). My mother chose to pity and help him rather than hate and punish him, and it worked. I'm not saying that this is an exemplary model we should always follow, but it does show that the common assumption that the "abuser" or "rapist" is a "bad person" and always will be is misguided.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am The fact he decided to act that way even after his prison sentence proves he doesn't care. He doesn't care for his victims, and he doesn't care about the consequences.

A single off-hand remark doesn't warrant condemning someone to death, don't you think?

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 1:50 am Most MAPs haven't committed a crime and have no victims. The hate against maps is usually unreasonable, but anything he faced was totally warranted.

What about those MAPs who have committed a crime? Should they all die? What if they say it was consensual? If the crime was "statutory rape"? What if the consent is ambiguous, as is often the case? Not to mention the very common belief that MAPs are "ticking time bombs" that will nearly all sexually assault a child at some point in their lives. Who has the right to decide who lives and who dies? Who knows whether or not the hatred is "reasonable"?

Here's a solution: we do away with hatred altogether, and we never murder anyone for their past actions. If they pose a clear and immediate danger to others, they should be taken off the streets. If they don't, true rehabilitation, not prison, is often the best option.

Are you serious? Yes, I do full heartedly believe an off handed remark warranted his death. Rape has no excuses. I believe in the death penalty personally and if I had been the judge of it him and your grandpa would've died much sooner in the most gruesome way possible. And, as for the comments regarding what abt maps who HAVE committed crimes, they should die too. You know you can't mention statutory rape because it isn't comparable in a conversation like this, but as for crimes against children, that is never redeemable. Maps shouldn't have sex with children and that isn't even a crazy take. Even with consent, a lot of statutory rape only happens as a result of grooming that made the minor think it was okay to say yes, not often genuine consent. As for ambiguous consent? That's just as bad as rape. If you don't have a complete, solid yes, it should be considered a no and going against that is rape. Your morals are disgusting, and you are disgusting.

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 2:28 am Are you serious? Yes, I do full heartedly believe an off handed remark warranted his death. Rape has no excuses. I believe in the death penalty personally and if I had been the judge of it him and your grandpa would've died much sooner in the most gruesome way possible. And, as for the comments regarding what abt maps who HAVE committed crimes, they should die too. You know you can't mention statutory rape because it isn't comparable in a conversation like this, but as for crimes against children, that is never redeemable. Maps shouldn't have sex with children and that isn't even a crazy take. Even with consent, a lot of statutory rape only happens as a result of grooming that made the minor think it was okay to say yes, not often genuine consent. As for ambiguous consent? That's just as bad as rape. If you don't have a complete, solid yes, it should be considered a no and going against that is rape. Your morals are disgusting, and you are disgusting.

WavesInEternity wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 3:17 am

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 2:28 am Are you serious? Yes, I do full heartedly believe an off handed remark warranted his death. Rape has no excuses. I believe in the death penalty personally and if I had been the judge of it him and your grandpa would've died much sooner in the most gruesome way possible. And, as for the comments regarding what abt maps who HAVE committed crimes, they should die too. You know you can't mention statutory rape because it isn't comparable in a conversation like this, but as for crimes against children, that is never redeemable. Maps shouldn't have sex with children and that isn't even a crazy take. Even with consent, a lot of statutory rape only happens as a result of grooming that made the minor think it was okay to say yes, not often genuine consent. As for ambiguous consent? That's just as bad as rape. If you don't have a complete, solid yes, it should be considered a no and going against that is rape. Your morals are disgusting, and you are disgusting.

You probably shouldn't be on this forum if my morals disgust you. Judging by your language and beliefs here, I'm questioning the notion that you're an AAM. You're very much speaking like an anti. The MAP movement is, in fact, inclusive of those among us who have offended in the past, have been tried in a court of law, and have served their sentence.

What you're suggesting would imply killing a very, very large number of people. "In the most gruesome ways"? I don't know how you reached such a point, but you have a lot of hatred in your heart. People guilty of causing bodily harm to others through assault don't get the death penalty, and rape is a form of assault, albeit a special case. There is no evidence for it causing more harm than other egregious forms of assault, only certain unique kinds of harm. While they are undoubtedly very significant, the harms of sexual violence are comparable to those of other forms of violence. It's not as terrible a crime as murder, and I certainly don't believe that all murderers should die.

The men who are having sexual contact with you online, as you claimed, are probably committing a crime by doing so. Should they all die?

My mother would tell you that it's very problematic that too many people who speak out against CSA and think they have all the solutions haven't actually experienced it themselves. She would also tell you that my grandfather didn't deserve to die, and since she's his primary victim, who are you to say otherwise?

Olivia2012 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 2:28 am [...] as for the comments regarding what abt maps who HAVE committed crimes, they should die too. [...] As for ambiguous consent? That's just as bad as rape. [...]