MAP Forum

From what I've been able to gather, many who are against us are controlling types only interested in protecting their children to enforce their own egos and influence their children to be their image but not independent. After all, sex is seen as an "adult" thing and becoming an "adult" means having independence they cannot stand. There are genetic reasons for toxic, narcissistic/psychopathic types and those who are more altruistic and not interested in controlling others.

Even as infants these traits have been observed, such as not having empathy or being overly sensitive to the crying of other babies, indifference to the environment, and even brain scans have shown core differences between toxic types and nontoxic types. Their behavior and core traits do not readily change over the course of life even with therapy. if it were all inherently learned and learned later in life treatment would be much more effective.

Since our society tends to favor these people and many who are kind tend to not have kids out of risk of being like their parents or who don't want to bring a child into the world, those traits are less likely to be passed on or skip a generation. Note that I say less likely. Some of the worst people come from the most loving of families, and some of the kindest people come from the worst of families. Genetics do play a role, but culture can acerbate or diminish these traits and behaviors.

bnkywuv wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2026 11:18 am From what I've been able to gather, many who are against us are controlling types only interested in protecting their children to enforce their own egos and influence their children to be their image but not independent. After all, sex is seen as an "adult" thing and becoming an "adult" means having independence they cannot stand. There are genetic reasons for toxic, narcissistic/psychopathic types and those who are more altruistic and not interested in controlling others.

Even as infants these traits have been observed, such as not having empathy or being overly sensitive to the crying of other babies, indifference to the environment, and even brain scans have shown core differences between toxic types and nontoxic types. Their behavior and core traits do not readily change over the course of life even with therapy. if it were all inherently learned and learned later in life treatment would be much more effective.

Since our society tends to favor these people and many who are kind tend to not have kids out of risk of being like their parents or who don't want to bring a child into the world, those traits are less likely to be passed on or skip a generation. Note that I say less likely. Some of the worst people come from the most loving of families, and some of the kindest people come from the worst of families. Genetics do play a role, but culture can acerbate or diminish these traits and behaviors.

I'm not saying its one gene. I'm saying its many genes, the enviorment and epicgentic ancestral programming all interacting in a complex way. No one serious in evolutionary sciences blames everything on one gene, the same gene can express it self many different ways depending on enviormental ifs and thens and many genes together create a ton of unique scenarios. I blame overly powerful parental protection instincts from many genes.

I agree with your observations too as I mentioned here.
https://forum.map-union.org/viewtopic.php?t=4240

"I understand your disagrement. You make the case that people with authorative controlling personality types want to mold children in their image and get upset when children don't conform too their image, you also make the case this can and does happen even outside of parents."

Evolution didn't program us rationally, it made huge errors and now we get to see it, there is no contradiction between Disgust Theory and your ideas, both are ideas can work harmonous to advance child love advoacy. I will take more time to think about what you say, and I tend to agree normies will be easier to convince then controlling types. Just understand the controlling types are also something natural selection favored. Strict parenting and a rigid conservative society with a "tough guy" attitude isn't pretty but it may have been useful for prehistoric humans to share limited resources and survive. I am just giving an example of how evolutionary psychology integrates with your ideas. You can look at the social issue and I'll look at the evolutionary ones and we can integrate both.


Its just that I can't stress enough

WE TRIED CULTURAL EXPLANATIONS ALONE ON WHY THEY HATE US

WE TRIED BLAMING SATANIC PANIC OF THE 1980s

WE TRIED BLAMING CHRIS HANSEN'S MEDIA INFLUENCE

WE TRIED BLAMING PURITAN CULTURAL NORMS

WE TRIED WAVING AN LGBT FLAG AND BEGGING FOR SYMPATHY

WE TRIED BLAMING the UN for requesting NAMBLA be removed from gay rights

WE TRIED PRETENDING MOST NON WESTERN CULTURES ARE PRO PEDO

WE TRIED REBRANDING AS MAPS AND NOMAPS

WE TRIED LEFTIST LIBERATION "OPPRESSED VS OPPRESSOR" DYNAMICS

WE TRIED INTERSECTIONALITY RESEARCH

WE TRIED THE SOCIAL SCIENCES

WE TRIED JOINING INDEPENDENT POLITICAL MOVEMENTS

WE TRIED CIVIL RIGHTS AND EXISTENALIST TALKING POINTS

WE TRIED SO MANY CULTURAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS

WE TRIED TALKING ABOUT CONTROLLING PERSONALITY TYPES

Zero progress, antis still want to kill us all. We don't have an ideology that tackles what we directly observe (Visceral disgust and moral outrage)
no one's examined the extreme us vs. them thinking in antis either or how qanon crap gets started in the first place.

I'm not saying this because I'm rude I'm saying this because I am frustrated with how pro-LGBTQIA thinkers operate. They always talk about societal influences, but they never look into the natural world. They obsess over culture events but ignore the natural world. They never look at research that show bad smells increase disliking of homosexuals or how the same regions of the brain that detect rotten food remap to detect unwanted sexual cues and norm violations.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6919302053
https://www.psypost.org/large-study-ind ... ian-women/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21707161/


it didn't work. we got no where. We didn't look at nature. we looked into culture deeply and ignored the natural world. we didn't think about visceral disgust, we ignored the two most common reacitons. Disgust and moral outrage. The mother bird protecting her young from a dangerous threat has more to do with our problem then any cultural explanation alone. Just watch nature documentaries of how territorial animals get when defending their young. Culture is the super structure what natural selection favors is the base.

Think of it, if I remove Disgust Theory from my argument the only thing I am left with is debunking qanon, satanic panic and us vs them thinking and talking about how much I want to kiss and cuddle little chinese girls and how its different then penetration. That can make logic, but I don't have a strong thesis to tie it together or a counter to the constant influx of "EWW THATS DISGUSTING" or explain why antis want dealth penalty for all of us without a trial. Without Disgust Theory I'd probably be brainstorming about Chris Hansen, NCMEC, the media influence, NAMBLA's mistakes like I am now. But I wouldn't be looking at the natural world. I would identify us vs them thinking without tying it to evolutionary psychology. I'd be one of those stereotypical leftist that investigates cultural influences. I'd be an intersectionality researcher like the Queer Theory people who tried but failed to normalize pedophilia.

We can either call them "map phobic" or "mapmisia offenders" like a leftist college student coming up with silly names. Or we can heavily disect anti behavior using evolutionary psychology and cultural explanations combined, that way we can incorporate both our ideas, and label them as having the brain of a territorial animal being false alarmed into protecting its young from imaginary threats. Call anti pedos "mismatchers" because they mismatch us for a threat to children when we are not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_mismatch

Here are several dozen high quality science videos on Youtube about anxiety and stress that perfectly align with my Disgust Theory.

Mainstream science is saying

1) for stress: "the same neurocircuits that once responded to animals being chased by predators also fire in day to day stress at work/school/wherever.

2) for anxiety: the same neurocircuits that animals use when they believe they are being stalked by a predator got repurposed for day to day human anxiety and mostly function by predicting threats that may not happen. Predicting a non-existent jaguar is better then being wrong and getting eaten

These are both tied to the same parts of the brain that generate fear, and of course fear is to respect the boundaries of a predatory animal.

Robert Sapolsky and many others talk about this. THIS IS MAINSTREAM SCIENCE

IT CONNECTS TO MY DISGUST THEORY PERFECTLY, (my claim that ancient neuropathways that once dealt with child safety and predatory animals who ate kids got readapted to protect children from peaceful pedos

Dozens of Videos talk about stress and anxiety tied to predatory animals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEcdGK4DQSg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6-HAPgVsv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Tw9xpptWA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo1A45ShcMo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LygdRAt0Qs0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbgFb0QP2ys

If mainstream science says this claim "neurocircuits for stress and anxiety are tied to predatory animals" then they should have no issue adopting Disgust Theory's claim about peaceful pedos being a mismatch for child harm. This is how we win this shows my theory is tying in with more evolutionary psychology. confirmation bias be damned. There is evidence for what I am saying.

zarkle wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2026 4:14 am Mainstream science is saying

1) for stress: "the same neurocircuits that once responded to animals being chased by predators also fire in day to day stress at work/school/wherever.

2) for anxiety: the same neurocircuits that animals use when they believe they are being stalked by a predator got repurposed for day to day human anxiety and mostly function by predicting threats that may not happen. Predicting a non-existent jaguar is better then being wrong and getting eaten

[...]

If mainstream science says this claim "neurocircuits for stress and anxiety are tied to predatory animals" then they should have no issue adopting Disgust Theory's claim about peaceful pedos being a mismatch for child harm. This is how we win this shows my theory is tying in with more evolutionary psychology. confirmation bias be damned. There is evidence for what I am saying.

We reuse the same neural circuits for a lot of things, simply because we have a brain of limited size. Sex, drugs, social media: the same neural circuits. Hence the plethora of superficial newspaper articles worried that, in our brains, having sex and getting a like have extremely similar effects.

But this doesn’t mean they are the same thing; it doesn’t mean they carry the same weight, the same value, the same origins, the same rationalizations, or anything of the sort. Many experiences of different significance pass through the same neural circuits. It would be really difficult to expect otherwise, since we would need to form new parts of the brain for every new type of interaction or experience.

I’ll also add that the same neuronal reuse applies to the idea of fleeing from a predator (and the bush that moves is later used to talk about animism and religious thought). So don’t see it as an original starting point either— that, too, is in itself a reuse of something pre-existing. It’s a bit like when we talk about our eyes. They don’t just appear overnight; it starts with the skin, then sensitivity to light shapes, and so on… a constant reuse that, over time, through natural selection and other factors, led to what we are today. So it would be wrong to talk about vision as if it started with “we need it to escape predators.” That’s an origin point plopped right in the middle of our evolutionary history.

zarkle wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2026 3:50 am it didn't work. we got no where.
[...]
I'd be an intersectionality researcher like the Queer Theory people who tried but failed to normalize pedophilia.

And what exactly do you think your approach can provide as a successful component for activism? I could say that pedophilia is a social construct, that the desire is present in all of us, that adults like to dominate children's body through the institutions of the family and school, etc and etc. All this is true, but we stay stucked. Some successful social struggle isn't just a result of good arguments, specially when people don't want to hear them.

Also did you ever consider old literature?
You are not the first to criticize the exclusive use of the moral panic theory.
https://www.ipce.info/library/journal-a ... oanalyzi-0

nicholas_weeks wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2026 11:55 pm

zarkle wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2026 3:50 am it didn't work. we got no where.
[...]
I'd be an intersectionality researcher like the Queer Theory people who tried but failed to normalize pedophilia.

And what exactly do you think your approach can provide as a successful component for activism? I could say that pedophilia is a social construct, that the desire is present in all of us, that adults like to dominate children's body through the institutions of the family and school, etc and etc. All this is true, but we stay stucked. Some successful social struggle isn't just a result of good arguments, specially when people don't want to hear them.

Also did you ever consider old literature?
You are not the first to criticize the exclusive use of the moral panic theory.
https://www.ipce.info/library/journal-a ... oanalyzi-0

When I say the old literature, I mean what I know from NAMBLA, Harry Hay, Queer Theorist and The Gay Left.

They heavily focused on blaming puritan Western Culture being oppressive, trying to imagine an alternative world built on sexual liberation. They basically applied Marxist class analysis to pedophilia and gay rights. I argue this isn't effective. Thanks for sharing more literature.

I am not the first in mention of cultural panic. But I am the first to tie in cultural panic to Evolutionary mechanisms like group think and child protection.

nicholas_weeks wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2026 11:55 pm

zarkle wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2026 3:50 am it didn't work. we got no where.
[...]
I'd be an intersectionality researcher like the Queer Theory people who tried but failed to normalize pedophilia.

And what exactly do you think your approach can provide as a successful component for activism?

I built an entire framework independent of 'leftist class analysis' or other things like "blaming satanic panic alone" or "blaming Chris Hansen's media influence" that ties back to known evolutionary behaviors. The classical literature focused heavily on the role of family, school, parents, and society structures trying to reorganize society in a certain way to normalize pedophilia

I took a different approach and looked at the natural world very carefully.

1) The psychology of Disgust and how the same parts of the brain that detect rotten food also detect norm violations and unwanted seuxal cues.
2) Us vs them thinking and how it is contagious, and how dangerous ideologies like qanon, communism and nazism use extreme us vs them thinking
3) How millions of years of evolution shaped animals to protect children at all cost and how these instincts mismatch, the predatory animals are gone but our neurocircuits are still wired to detect them
4) The science of moral outrage and how moral outrage over common threats help humans bond, rather then threat is pedophiles or tigers.

All previous MAP rights activist focused on cultural and society issues, treating it as unique to the culture. Many adapted Karl Marx's class analysis and applied it to gay rights, under the label of intersectionality research. My novel contribution is looking at the natural world. My novel contribution is suggesting to shame antis for mismatching us with a threat, to compare them to wild animals. I want anti pedos to know that the strongest moral values they have about protecting children from pedos are mismatched instincts.

I have something I can wield against antis and I give this knowledge to everyone.

Leftist are biased to never look at evolutionary reasons, they always try to explain everything from a cultural perspective.

The Plan

If antis are angry and furious at us

Explain the intense rage is a false alarm, the primitive parts of their brain is mismatching MAPs with a genuine threat that wants to harm their children. Millions of years of evolution made a better safe then sorry model. Give them a chance to reason their way out of blind animalian rage. Show them you are not the predator they think you are

If antis are disgusted at us

Cite how the same part of the brain that detects rotten food got co-opted later in early human evolution to detect norm violations and reject unwanted sexual cues. Thus showing that the Disgust towards MAPs is a complex mix of cultural norms and evolved repulsion working together.

If antis are ganging up on us with intense social pressure

Cite research on group think and agreed upon moral violations. Group think and conformity was a mask in prehistoric times where disagreeing could mean being ostracized from a tribe and being left without food access and exposure to the elements. Sharing moral concerns and fears was a bonding mechanism for early human tribes. 15,000 years ago the moral outrage was centered around dangerous animals and hostile tribes, now its MAPs, mexicans and drag queens

If antis start making up lore about satanic panic, qanon, and Epstein being a cannibal

Mock them, insult them. Ridicule them for believing such nonsense! Directly point out it is the byproduct of very strong child protection instincts natural selection favored and give them the opportunity to reason their way out of it to redeem themselves, Educate them on extreme us vs them narratives known to evolutionary psychologist. Explain "us" vs "them" thinking is the core of this insanity and logically debunk the "satanic pedo cannibal fever dream"

Rethink insult terms - "mapmisia/maphobia vs mismatchers"

I recommend we avoid terms like Mapmisia, maphobia and pedophobia entirely and instead use the term "mismatcher" because we are implying an evolutionary mismatch to them, the ancient circuits in their brain are mistaking us for a predatory animal hunting their children in a clear case of evolutionary mismatch " the prehistoric circuits are firing in error. Insult anti pedos for having a false alarm bell. Yell "FALSE ALARM" at them for viewing us as a danger when we are not. Mock anti pedos for absurd moral hysteria involving satanic cannibal cabals, show them that their silly conspiracy never came true. Mock anti pedos for mass believing schizo parts of the Epstein files relating to bogus schizo reports flooding the FBI after Epstein's arrest in 2019. Mock NCMEC for going decades believing "STRANGER DANGER" even though it didn't have a shred of evidence, its all simple black and white thinking that activates those neurocircuits

When antis freak out over 12-17 having sex

Cite how history is filled with those ages having sex and taking full responsibility and how feminist redefined the word "child" from 12 to 18 from PreIndustrial to Industrial societies thus expanding the definition of the word child and the instinctual repulsion that goes with it. Give them a hypothetical scenario how if law redefined child as anyone under 25 they would be freaking out about "satanic pedo elites raping 24 year old children" that's how dumb they are. Show how evolutionary and cultural explanations compliment each other. Cite how back in the 17th century all sex outside of marriage was viewed as disgusting and evil, showing the same neurocircuits can hook to different social trends


When antis demand extreme punishment for non serious "sex crimes"

Counter with educating them with research on Oxytocin. Oxytocin is a brain chemical that causes humans to have intense love, care and compassion and desire to bond with members of the ingroup for nothing but firey hatred ill will and wrath for the outgroup, Thus fueling an ultra punitive legal framework of crime and punishment. These punishments are logically the byproduct of Oxytocin applying against MAPs due to us being mismatched as predatory animals hunting children.

When LGBT says we are invalid and not welcome

Show them all the post on Reddit, X, Quora of LGBT/ally leftist asking on social media "am I a homo/trans/phobe for finding gay/trans sex gross" including gay men asking if they are misogynist for finding vaginas gross, or cis lesbians saying they are grossed out by trans lesbians but don't hate them. Educate the silly LGBT leftist that ALL HUMANS ARE DISGUSTED BY THINGS THEY AREN'T ATTRACTED TOO. Poke fun at them for not realizing this, LGBT should be mocked (NOT FOR BEING GAY/TRANS) but for failing to acknowledging the golden role disgust plays in human sexuality. Present the MAP community as a mature nuanced understanding of human sexuality that goes beyond LGBT's cultural scope. While LGBT+ community was reading Foucault we were studying neuroscience

-------------------------------------------------------

Remember I never said all humans are innately repulsed by adult prepubescent child sensual affection, though I do lean in the direction that they may be programmed to be repulsed/shocked by adult prepubescent sex. The main claim I said was natural selection favored societies that oppose or tabooify adult child love, rather then ones that tolerated it, as clearly there are no societies that normalize prepubescent sex with adults. Blaming colonialism alone and western power structures is largely unsupported dead end,.

We aren't in the 90s in a NAMBLA lecture hall, we are in the mid 2020s and ChatGPT is ready to explain the neuroscience of Disgust, Repulsion, Moral Outrage, Oxytocin, ingroup outgroup dynamics, and peer pressure. Focus on the research of Robert Sapolsky, Paul Rozin and Jonathan Haidt as well as others they cite. We can brainstorm totally new strategies that shake the establishment. Let's see how far Disgust theory (deeply rooted in Enlightenment thought, naturalism, and evolutionary psychology) gets. I don't care of 95% or more of people here disagree and think its 100% cultural. That was the mistake and I accept my challenge to prove you all wrong.

zarkle wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 6:22 am The Plan

If antis are angry and furious at us

Explain the intense rage is a false alarm, the primitive parts of their brain is mismatching MAPs with a genuine threat that wants to harm their children. Millions of years of evolution made a better safe then sorry model. Give them a chance to reason their way out of blind animalian rage. Show them you are not the predator they think you are

I think you are giving antis too much credit on their ability to listen to your idea.

Well, it's worth trying your idea to insult them and tell them it's a false alarm.

Learning to undeny wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 10:22 am

zarkle wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 6:22 am The Plan

If antis are angry and furious at us

Explain the intense rage is a false alarm, the primitive parts of their brain is mismatching MAPs with a genuine threat that wants to harm their children. Millions of years of evolution made a better safe then sorry model. Give them a chance to reason their way out of blind animalian rage. Show them you are not the predator they think you are

I think you are giving antis too much credit on their ability to listen to your idea.

Well, it's worth trying your idea to insult them and tell them it's a false alarm.

I don't think most people will respond to logic in a vacuum (if some do, I think it will be because they root their self-esteem in being intellectual and open-minded; or they might have a high level of intellectual curiosity although I think that applies less to values/caring or they want to minimize the ambiguity around the issue which requires eschewing subjectivity but not because their motivation is completely detached from any emotional bias or personal agenda). If you have any hope of persuading people, I think you have to tie it to something that they're already invested in and show a connection (how consistently respecting that value or holding that belief implies tolerating AMSC/adult attraction to minors or rejecting some of the talking points against it) in a way that is emotionally meaningful. How would you feel if you had no outlet for your sexuality or if your attraction/love was demonized? How might sexual suppression, or even 'helicopter parenting,' harm or ultimately children? Do young people deserve the same right to autonomy and freedom that you do?

The way some people talk about 'antis,' I think it's interesting to consider that most, if not all, of us are 'antis' on some issue or in some way. People who can brilliantly debunk x belief that is so obviously preposterous to us can completely miss the mark in some other area.