MAP Forum

Hi:

I am a bit shocked by the fact that Nobuhiro Watsuki, author of the famous manga Rurouni Kenshin, was fimly condemned for having CP and despite of that, he is still popular in Japan. Eichiiro Oda (One Piece autor) and Masashi Kishimoto (Naruto author) are still his friends and say this in public, Watsuki is still drawing his manga and there are a new anime and 2 live action Kenshin-based films. If a famous artist is condemned for having CP in a western country, his/her life would be ruined. Nobody would admit being his/her friend, and will receive boikots for sure. It's surprising how different japanese and western culture seems to be.

I have the feeling that japanese people didn't consider intergenerational sex or minor attraction as taboo in Showa and Heisei eras, but is a recent taboo in Reiwa era. My reasons to consider it like this is because in some manga/anime from Showa/Heisei eras, some female characters are sexualized minors with a developed body (Ranma-chan in Ranma, Asuka and Rei Ayanami in Evangelion, Orihime Inoue in Bleach, Bulma in Dragon Ball…), and Kenshin (28 years old) married with Kaoru (17 years old). Even in Toriyama's one-shot manga Tongpoo, a 14 year old girl appeared naked and was drawn with bug breasts. However, in Kimetsu no Yaiba (Manga/anime from Reiwa era), the most sexualized character, Kanroji Mitsuri, is 19 years old. There is a Reiwa remake of Ranma anime but in the remake, when Ranma-chan is naked, she hasn't nipples because censorship.

Some Showa/Heisei manga/anime used the lecherous old man who likes underage girl as a joke (Mutenroshi liked 16-year-old Bulma, Happosai from Ranma also liked 16 year-old-girls). In these jokes, the issue wasn't that old men being pedophiles, the issue was those old men being perverts and harassing women. The joke in Showa/Heisei eras would be the same with women over 18. I think that kind of comical situations are not common in Reiwa manga (but I can be wrong because I know old manga/anime better).

In the West, art reflects society's values, but I am not sure that the same happening in Japan. If so, japanese pop art (mostly manga and anime) may show us that minor atraction and/or intergenerational sex weren't a taboo until recent times. However, I am not sure about japanese art reflectin japanese society since anime characters are usually very rude and actual japanese people are very polite.

I have read here that the user Fragment has lived in Japan and, as a MAP, is obviously interested in how Japanese society consider this issues, so I’d like to ask him something (but anyone who knows could reply me, but I am specially interested in his answers):

How tolerant are japanese people with MAPs? Please select your answer and tell me why:

A) they were against MAPs in Showa/Heisei eras, and they still are.
B) they were mostly tolerant with MAPs in Showa/Heisei eras, and they still are.
C) they were mostly tolerant with MAPs in Showa/Heisei eras, but now they are anti-MAP like in western countries.

Thank you.

I actually had written a detailed post about this. A couple of weeks ago, due to stress, I had a mental breakdown and deleted all my posts. Our wonderful tech admin managed to save me a back up as an excel file, though. So I found the post (it's mostly focused on the laws rather than the attitudes):

Technically the crime of ""rape"" was abolished in Japan in 2017. It involved forcibly inserting a penis into a vagina, but if the girl was under 13 force was not required. It only applied to men. The lesser crime of ""forced indecency"" covered other sexual contact. It had a penalty of 2-15 years from 1908 until 2004 which was raised in 2005 to 3-20 years. It required a complaint from the victim for charges to be laid and had a statute of limitations of 10 years.

In 2017 it was replaced with the crime of ""forced sexual intercourse"", which is forcibly inserting (or forcing to be inserted) a penis into a vagina, mouth or anus. It moved anal sex, oral sex and rape by women from the lesser crime of ""indecency"" to the more severe crime. The minimum penalty increased from 3 to 5 years with a max of 20. The law also changed so that a complaint from the victim wasn't required- the prosecutor could charge any case they were aware of.

In July 2023 the name changed to ""non-consensual intercourse"". It expanded to cover putting fingers or objects into a vagina or anus. It also expanded the definition of ""non-consent"" from force to include things like ""deception"" and ""using a position of power"". The age of strict liability was raised from 13 to 16 (except there is a 5 year exemption, so, for example an 18-year-old can have sex with a 13-year-old). The prison term remained 5-20 years, but the statute of limitations was raised to 15 years, but in the case of a minor, this 15 years doesn't begin until they turn 18, so they can press charges up until they are 33 years old.

The crime of ""forced indecency"" applied to sexual acts outside of the scope of the rape/intercourse including touching, masturbating and in some rare cases hugging or kissing against someone's will. This law was first passed in 1995 with a sentence of 6 months - 7 years and has gotten stricter while many acts have moved from ""indecency"" into ""intercourse"". The penalty now is 6 months - 10 years and it uses the revised definition of consent (including age) and the same rules regarding pressing charges.

Up until 1995 you could have been an active BL with no consequences. Up until 2017 you would still face limited consequences- even less if you were a TBL. Since mid 2023 it has become much more punitive (including judges/ prosecutors' attitudes). It's still not as crazy as the West, but it's drawing ever nearer.

As for illegal images (ie child pornography), the law was only changed in 2014. Prior to that simple possession was still legal. Even now it's rare to hear of a case where someone is charged for only possession of illegal images. Usually it's someone that is guilty of a contact offense that filmed it on their phone, who has extra charges for creation of images. The rare case of possession is often because the person is high profile, or because it was the result of an international operation. The Japanese government wouldn't press charges themselves, but when there is international pressure...

In terms of social attitudes, I first came to Japan during the Heisei era and as recently as 2013 I had a teacher at a high school talking about the students (girls) saying something like "they look so nice, but it's a pity we're not allowed to touch". So attraction towards teenagers was seen as something "common" but "naughty".

Society is changing, though. Western values are seeping into Japanese culture through social media. It's still not as hysterical as western countries. I'd say that crimes involving minors are treated like drug crimes "oh, you have a weird fetish and did something wrong, do the time and I hope you can get proper treatment". That probably sums up the Reiwa attitude. The Johnny Kitagawa scandal (which really came to attention due to a BBC documentary, rather than from domestic action) changed attitudes a lot, too. Especially towards boys.

The Showa attitude towards sexual assault in general is probably best summed up by, "Well, just think of it as a stray dog biting you and forget about it quickly." There was an attitude of encouraging victims to move on from sexual assault (including rape) instead of dwelling on it.

There has been a shift, definitely. But it's still in its own Japanese way. And still nowhere near the level of hysteria of the west.

I was arrested on charges related to a 13 and a 14 year old boy. In the west some people wouldn't let me near their children. However, my sister-in-law doesn't seem to care at all around my nieces and nephews. She even had no problem with me sleeping in the same room as her 12-year-old son (communal sleeping is still quite common in Japan. Communal bathing, too). She still sees me as someone "good with kids", not as "a child predator". By the way, she is right.

Did I answer your question well enough?

You did, thank you. I only have one question more:

Up until 1995 you could have been an active BL with no consequences. Up until 2017 you would still face limited consequences- even less if you were a TBL. Since mid 2023 it has become much more punitive (including judges/ prosecutors' attitudes). It's still not as crazy as the West, but it's drawing ever nearer.

I don't understand why you would face limited consequences between 1995 and 2017 since AoC was raised up to 16 in 2023.

I'm sorry about your mental breakdown. I hope you feel better now. Best regards.

Before 2017, if you had anal sex with a boy under 13 it was considered "forced indecency" not "rape". It was illegal, but the punishments weren't as severe. After 2017 it became "forced intercourse" (the new name for the "rape" crime). For boys aged 13-16 there was no major change until 2023.

I am mostly attracted to 11-15 year olds. But the 2017 law meant that it would be a bad idea to do anything sexual with a 11-12 year old, it was much safer with a 13-15 year old.

Ironically now 13-15 year olds have become equally dangerous. It means there is no incentive to avoid younger boys. An 8 year old or a 14 year old? There might be small difference in the sentence depending on the judge, but they fall under the exact same subsection of the exact same law.

You might also be interested in this paper by Hoko Horii, a Japanese scholar that is working based in the Netherlands and who has also researched child marriage in Indonesia.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/chso.12877

She covers the legal situation in Japan very well.

Her conclusion is also stellar:

Conceptualizing law as ‘drawing lines’ compels us to consider the effects of this process, one of which involves reconstructing and shifting norms and conceptions. In the context of age of consent law, the lines it draws contributes to constructing the meaning of concepts such as ‘harm’, ‘consent’ and ‘children’ and ‘adolescents’ ‘sexual autonomy,’ possibly imposing mainstream morality on specific individuals and behaviours. As demonstrated in this article, regulating adolescents' behaviours necessitates a delicate balance between the protective and emancipatory functions of the law: age of consent law must protect and safeguard, at the same time to facilitate the autonomy of young persons. Recognizing that setting the age of consent impacts both negative and positive freedom of adolescents, law and policy-making in this area should carefully consider the balance between the two. It requires an assessment of whether the laws' interference with adolescents' sexual autonomy outweighs the harms they prevent or remedy. Following the recent revision of the age in the Japanese Penal Code, it remains crucial to closely observe how the new provision will be used and implemented, and how it impacts young people's sexual ‘freedom.’

Thank you. Some time ago I downloaded her paper titled The Limits of Sexual Autonomy for Minors: Debating Age of Consent Laws but I didn't had this one. Best regards.