MAP Forum

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comm ... edophiles/

Almost all the comments are supportive, at least regarding NOMAPs. Teens are just so much more open-minded. Sadly, I feel that many of these supportive people will start to fade in supportiveness as they age and have kids of their own.

I don't know if I would call it open-minded, I would rather say that they operate within a different framework. The framework of the older generation when it comes to crimes and things that they don't accept is primarily punitive. That is, they wish to punish and attack everything that they don't approve of. From what I see of the comments on this thread, the commenters operate within the framework of a psychiatric/psychological approach, which corresponds with the change in elite discourse from punishment towards control , as well as an empowerment of the psychiatric/psychological/therapy industry. Some countries, such as the Netherlands, have an (inconsistent) therapeutic response to pedophilia, which can actually entail someone being within a mental facility for an undetermined length of time, until they are no longer deemed a threat to the public. So the therapeutic response of helping pedophiles could be just as bad, if not worse, than the punitive response in some cases.

What needs to be done first is a questioning of the common discourse and a true understanding of it and how it operates, rather than trying to jump on a bandwagon that will just throw us off anyway.

Fragment wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:10 am https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comm ... edophiles/

Almost all the comments are supportive, at least regarding NOMAPs. Teens are just so much more open-minded. Sadly, I feel that many of these supportive people will start to fade in supportiveness as they age and have kids of their own.

Reddit - which I don't frequent - must really be an awful place, if this is considered a somewhat positive thread.

Yes, supportive, but in which way?

"nurse some of them back to a normal human status"
"to help their illness"
"They are sick"

Again, I'm not used to Reddit, but reading through this thread made me feel quite sad.

FairBlueLove wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:54 pm

Fragment wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:10 am https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comm ... edophiles/

Almost all the comments are supportive, at least regarding NOMAPs. Teens are just so much more open-minded. Sadly, I feel that many of these supportive people will start to fade in supportiveness as they age and have kids of their own.

Reddit - which I don't frequent - must really be an awful place, if this is considered a somewhat positive thread.

Yes, supportive, but in which way?

"nurse some of them back to a normal human status"
"to help their illness"
"They are sick"

Again, I'm not used to Reddit, but reading through this thread made me feel quite sad.

i think not straight up saying we are monsters that deserved to be vaporized from existence is improvement from the norm.

I know my brain works I think differently than most people's does but even as a MAP I do feel normal. I don't see what I have as an "illness" or that I am "sick" considering my attraction is strictly secondary not primary or exclusive. Just as I don't see other paraphilias as wrong or those individuals as sick.

FairBlueLove wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:54 pm Reddit - which I don't frequent - must really be an awful place, if this is considered a somewhat positive thread.

Yes, supportive, but in which way?

"nurse some of them back to a normal human status"
"to help their illness"
"They are sick"

Again, I'm not used to Reddit, but reading through this thread made me feel quite sad.

Reddit is a cesspool. Not just against MAPs, but against sex in general.

Rolo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:03 pm I don't know if I would call it open-minded, I would rather say that they operate within a different framework. The framework of the older generation when it comes to crimes and things that they don't accept is primarily punitive. That is, they wish to punish and attack everything that they don't approve of. From what I see of the comments on this thread, the commenters operate within the framework of a psychiatric/psychological approach, which corresponds with the change in elite discourse from punishment towards control , as well as an empowerment of the psychiatric/psychological/therapy industry. Some countries, such as the Netherlands, have an (inconsistent) therapeutic response to pedophilia, which can actually entail someone being within a mental facility for an undetermined length of time, until they are no longer deemed a threat to the public. So the therapeutic response of helping pedophiles could be just as bad, if not worse, than the punitive response in some cases.

What needs to be done first is a questioning of the common discourse and a true understanding of it and how it operates, rather than trying to jump on a bandwagon that will just throw us off anyway.

I'm definitely not a supporter of the pathologization approach in any strategic sense. I agree that being institutionalized can be just as bad, or worse, than being imprisoned. In terms of policy I don't support it.

However I shared this because I felt that the level of compassion was higher than I've seen in most threads about pedophilia. It's misplaced and it still accepts the narrative that we are potentially harmful. But it's still better than most discussions. It's a low bar, I know, but it's step one of the battle. Just to be seen as human. Then we can start to focus more on our needs as humans.

Fragment wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:59 am
I'm definitely not a supporter of the pathologization approach in any strategic sense. I agree that being institutionalized can be just as bad, or worse, than being imprisoned. In terms of policy I don't support it.

However I shared this because I felt that the level of compassion was higher than I've seen in most threads about pedophilia. It's misplaced and it still accepts the narrative that we are potentially harmful. But it's still better than most discussions. It's a low bar, I know, but it's step one of the battle. Just to be seen as human. Then we can start to focus more on our needs as humans.

Saying that we need help is at least better than saying we need to be wiped from existence like most people say about us.

Fragment wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:59 am

Rolo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:03 pm I don't know if I would call it open-minded, I would rather say that they operate within a different framework. The framework of the older generation when it comes to crimes and things that they don't accept is primarily punitive. That is, they wish to punish and attack everything that they don't approve of. From what I see of the comments on this thread, the commenters operate within the framework of a psychiatric/psychological approach, which corresponds with the change in elite discourse from punishment towards control , as well as an empowerment of the psychiatric/psychological/therapy industry. Some countries, such as the Netherlands, have an (inconsistent) therapeutic response to pedophilia, which can actually entail someone being within a mental facility for an undetermined length of time, until they are no longer deemed a threat to the public. So the therapeutic response of helping pedophiles could be just as bad, if not worse, than the punitive response in some cases.

What needs to be done first is a questioning of the common discourse and a true understanding of it and how it operates, rather than trying to jump on a bandwagon that will just throw us off anyway.

I'm definitely not a supporter of the pathologization approach in any strategic sense. I agree that being institutionalized can be just as bad, or worse, than being imprisoned. In terms of policy I don't support it.

However I shared this because I felt that the level of compassion was higher than I've seen in most threads about pedophilia. It's misplaced and it still accepts the narrative that we are potentially harmful. But it's still better than most discussions. It's a low bar, I know, but it's step one of the battle. Just to be seen as human. Then we can start to focus more on our needs as humans.

In my opinion, the main issues that create and intensify the view of hatred against pedophilia are the lack of youth agency, the infantilization and perceived vulnerability of youth, and the trauma model of psychology itself. I don't think that pedophiles being seen as human is necessarily the issue, as I'm sure that the same teens in that reddit thread would be against relationships with age gaps, even when the younger partner is legal. Regularly on reddit, you can see posts where people are adamantly against, for example, a 25 year old with a 40 year old, as gross and disgusting and taking advantage of the younger partner. But do we really have the issue that people think it's so weird to find a 25 year old attractive as we do for finding a 10 year old attractive? I don't think that is the case. So to add to my previous list, there's also the idea of the act or the attraction or the interaction between people of different age groups as being gross and inappropriate in itself.

So then the MAP approach as an extension of the LGBT movement, that is, seeing pedophiles as humans just as gays were humanized, should be called into question, as the direction of travel is further towards the direction which I listed. Youth perceive themselves ever more as vulnerable, there is no advocacy for youth agency, movements such as #MeToo have been popular among youth, and they perceive age gaps even in friendships as inappropriate and unacceptable. So then it will be a continuation or worsening of the same, with even more people punished, since all age gaps are demonized, but it will potentially be under a therapeutic paradigm.

Rolo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 6:57 pm I'm sure that the same teens in that reddit thread would be against relationships with age gaps, even when the younger partner is legal. Regularly on reddit, you can see posts where people are adamantly against, for example, a 25 year old with a 40 year old, as gross and disgusting and taking advantage of the younger partner. But do we really have the issue that people think it's so weird to find a 25 year old attractive as we do for finding a 10 year old attractive? I don't think that is the case. So to add to my previous list, there's also the idea of the act or the attraction or the interaction between people of different age groups as being gross and inappropriate in itself.

So then the MAP approach as an extension of the LGBT movement, that is, seeing pedophiles as humans just as gays were humanized, should be called into question, as the direction of travel is further towards the direction which I listed. Youth perceive themselves ever more as vulnerable, there is no advocacy for youth agency, movements such as #MeToo have been popular among youth, and they perceive age gaps even in friendships as inappropriate and unacceptable. So then it will be a continuation or worsening of the same, with even more people punished, since all age gaps are demonized, but it will potentially be under a therapeutic paradigm.

People seem to have this thing against age gaps and I'm not a teen anymore but I never saw a problem with them personally but I think that was because I seen it often enough. My dad's adoptive parents were 10 years part and my mom's parents were about 11 years ago. My one aunt dated a guy much older than her for as long as I could remember got married then divorced. At my old job a lot of people were in relationships or married someone a lot older than them (not always their first marriage but point stands).

I have a big thing for age gaps myself but that is just me. I am on a few subreddits for age gap relationships and one where it is often younger women (of legal age) who have things for much older guys (some for guys almost old enough to be there dad or grandad in some cases) and there we all for it because we generally don't see it as a bad thing.

Teens are much smarter than the governments want us to believe, today's modern soyciety pretend that they're dumb.