The Elephant in the Room (The Problem That is Not Addressed Well)

[Brain O'Conner]

The core problem, which I see in all kinds of communities be it the MAP community, non/anti MAP community that talks about relationships, the feminist community, and many more, is that how sexual feelings and desires gets this condemned undertone where it is looked at as selfish or greedy in a way. I just don't know how to really word it. To elaborate further, someone having a crush on someone and wants to kiss the person that they are crushing on, is not looked at as selfish or all-consuming, it is looked at as something warm and bonding. Now, let's take that same scenario and instead of that person wanting a kiss, they want to have some sexual relations. Now, that same person's feelings will be looked at as something all-consuming, selfish/greedy. These may not be the right words, but it has this strange undertone that it creates in society, especially in western cultures. In other words, nobody says to the person that "Oh, you just want to be with that person so you can kiss to feel warm". But, instead, people would say "Oh, you just want to be with that person because you just want to get off." I am not saying that most people think sex in of itself is wrong, and in fact, a lot of people see it as a good way to form a bond, but still, there's still that societal undertone about it. So, I believe this societal condemned undertone that is very silent is part of the problem in what we are trying to fight for in terms of young people's sexual autonomy. I want to hear your guy's thoughts on this.

[PorcelainLark]

Sounds like objectification. To imply sexual fantasy is bad because it's self-gratifying. As opposed emerging after some kind of Platonic love. Basically it implies wanting physical intimacy mean you're using someone for physical intimacy rather than loving them, and that pure love is asexual. Poisoning the well regarding wanting physical intimacy.

Ironically, I think Sartre used sex as exemplary of intersubjectivity. In contrast to this more recent obsession with analyzing every minutiae of sexual desire as objectifying, gratifying, non-consensual, and sexualizing, at earlier points in the 20th century the progressive thinkers were more sex-positive.

I don't really feel that much guilt or shame about sex any more, so I just find the interminable discussion of sexual boundaries boring. The result is, people don't have sex because people who hate sex introduce all these reasons to overthink it. If you're sex-repulsed, that's fine, but don't try to set the rules for the rest of us. There are far too many people who hide their sex-repulsion behind nebulous concepts like "decency" and "appropriateness." Think about how many time you see people on Reddit complaining about nudity in films. We get it, you hate sex.

[Brain O'Conner]

If you're sex-repulsed, that's fine, but don't try to set the rules for the rest of us. There are far too many people who hide their sex-repulsion behind nebulous concepts like "decency" and "appropriateness." Think about how many time you see people on Reddit complaining about nudity in films. We get it, you hate sex.

I think you may have misunderstood my post my guy. First of all, I am not sex repulsed at all, so I really don't know how you came to that conclusion. And secondly, I am not setting rules for anyone. I don't know how you even came to that conclusion. What I was trying to say in my post is that how anti's can use this societal undertone about sex as a way to justify why younger people don't have sexual autonomy and why such interactions are bad between an adult and kid. Did you even understand anything I've said in that post because I don't know how in the hell you came to the conclusion that I might repulsed about sex and trying to set rules?

[PorcelainLark]

If you're sex-repulsed, that's fine, but don't try to set the rules for the rest of us. There are far too many people who hide their sex-repulsion behind nebulous concepts like "decency" and "appropriateness." Think about how many time you see people on Reddit complaining about nudity in films. We get it, you hate sex.

I think you may have misunderstood my post my guy. First of all, I am not sex repulsed at all, so I really don't know how you came to that conclusion. And secondly, I am not setting rules for anyone. I don't know how you even came to that conclusion. What I was trying to say in my post is that how anti's can use this societal undertone about sex as a way to justify why younger people don't have sexual autonomy and why such interactions are bad between an adult and kid. Did you even understand anything I've said in that post because I don't know how in the hell you came to the conclusion that I might repulsed about sex and trying to set rules?

I was referring to:

The result is, people don't have sex because people who hate sex introduce all these reasons to overthink it.

It was semantically ambiguous, I meant the indefinite rather than the personal "you." As in "you can never be too careful." "You" personally (Brian) wouldn't be included in "you" indefinitely ("people who hate sex").

If you're sex-repulsed, that's fine, but don't try to set the rules for the rest of us.

"You" in this context, refers to a particular type of person in a generic sense, rather than you personally.

Similarly with:

Think about how many time you see people on Reddit complaining about nudity in films. We get it, you hate sex.

The "we" includes sex-positive people, the "you" refers to people on Reddit who complain about nudity in films.

I was agreeing with what you were saying.

[RoosterDance]

This is simply the result of millennia of sexual repression.
People believe sex is evil just because that's what's always been believed. They've never known any other possibility. And most likely, have never experienced good sex themselves.

This all originates from ancient Jewish religion. Which then split off into Christianity, Islam, and modern Judaism. All regions influenced by these religions became very sexually repressive. Unfortunately, thanks to British and later American imperialism, there aren't many places left in the world untouched by these religions.

[girllover]

I am not saying that most people think sex in of itself is wrong, and in fact, a lot of people see it as a good way to form a bond, but still, there's still that societal undertone about it. So, I believe this societal condemned undertone that is very silent is part of the problem in what we are trying to fight for in terms of young people's sexual autonomy. I want to hear your guy's thoughts on this.

I totally agree with what you said.
And as I have noticed in my conversations in groups of young people... I see most young people knowingly or unknowingly are conditioned to think that way. That if someone wants to have sex with a person they are just selfish and greedy.
I think part of the problem is that such type of people actually exist. And most of them are quite vocal about their wants and 'conquests'. What makes them that way would be a topic for another discussion. But they do make it difficult for others to be accepted.
Also, there are young people who under peer pressure say things or act in ways they're not supposed to.
And it's not just love and sex. You can see it playing out in other aspects of life too.
So what's the solution?
I think being self-aware, compassionate towards others, taking people at face value can go a long way in changing such mindset. But it has to happen from all sides.