MAP Forum

As we all know, teens are a frustrating age group, being legally children, socially adolescents, and biologically adults. Until the 1800s as a response to the industrial revolution, people were treated as adults, young and learning adults but still adults, once they reached puberty in most parts of the world. Adolescence is a recent concept created in the west that spread across the globe due to colonialism, and is no treated as a natural developmental stage instead of what it really as, an artificial manmade social/legal concept.You become an adult once you are capable of reproduction, that is true of literally every animal species on earth including humans until as recently as two centuries ago.

God forbid that you suggest to someone that teens are BIOLOGICALLY adults, hell, if you even suggest that they are anything but literal children nowadays people will cancel you. I am not even saying that teens are LEGALLY adults or SOCIALLY adults, which they are objectively not, im just stating a basic biological fact. They are capable of reproduction, by the time they hit 14-16 most of them are fully grown and wont change much, if it all, for the next couple years. The “teen brain” is a myth, the brain doesnt stop developing at 25 because it NEVER stops devloping. They arent “mentally/emotionally children”, they ARE “mentally/emotionally” STUNTED because they are treated like children, held to the standards of children(except for the rare cases where they commit a serious crime), expected to act like children and are severely shamed and called “grown” or “fast” if they dare to act like the adults they biologically are. How is someone supposed to act like a mature adult if everyone, from the goverment to every day citizens, treat them like they are devolopmentally 9 years old at best? Obviously they will “act like kids” if you force them to “act like kids” and shit on them if they “act grown”.

But if I even mention to people that teens are biologically young adults they act as if I have said something like “black people should be enslaved” or “women are inferior” or something extremely offensive and cruel, and get defensive like their own lives depend on it.

There are so many parts of “teenage hood” that would work out so much better for everyone if we stopped babying them and policing their bodies. Like teen preganancy, who gives a shit if they get pregnant? If they werent treated like 8 year olds this wouldnt be a problem. They are just doing what nature has prepared them to do. At worse all you need to do is give them proper sex ed and access to birth control and abortion, instead of treating them like little babies who will explode if they follow their natural biology. Or underaged drinking, there shouldnt be an age limit on drinking in the first place, minors should be tought to drink safely and responisblly. Or lying about their age to sneak into clubs, why should clubs have an age limit in the first place? Or at least such a high one? Its not like anyone can tell the difference between a 16 year old and 21 year old anyway, which is why 16 year olds have such an easy time passing as the age on their fake id(because theres zero biological, physical, emotional, or mental difference between an underaged teen and a young 20 year old except for a couple extra years of expiernce, clubs wouldnt ask for ids in the first place if there was a difference that you could tell). Or staying out late and sneaking out. Why should they have a curfew in the first place? They arent 5. Or truancy. They are old enough to make their own descions on their education, and a hs diploma or college diploma shouldn't be the only route t o success. Adults put stupid childish infantile rules on teens then call them “rebellious” or “spoiled brats” or “fast and grown” for breaking these stupid ass rules that shouldnt even exist in the first place.The reasons teens are so “rebellious” against legal adults is because legal adults treat them like children or “adolecents” (which lets be real, is just childhood 2.0. Adolecents is to childhood as pullups are to diapers, its the same damn thing, just worded different to make people feel more mature) which deep down, teens know, or at least used to know, is objectively false

In my experience, and believe me, there's a lot of it
They all totally turn on you the day they turn 18, every time.

14 seems much more mature than 18

G@yWad69 wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 11:20 pm Or underaged drinking, there shouldnt be an age limit on drinking in the first place, minors should be tought to drink safely and responisblly.

Frankly, I consider alcohol more troubling than sex—and I don’t just mean for minors. "Drinking responsibly" ultimately means not drinking at all.

Yet I wouldn’t enforce outright prohibitions solely because something is harmful. People have the right to make their own choices, even self-destructive ones, provided they’re aware of the consequences. No more, no less.

Actually the concept of the teenager and teenhood didn't come about until the post WW 2 period and the definition of child was changed in the mid 2000s to anyone under 18 instead of someone who is under 13 which is what it used to be.

Even in the 1800s and throughout the 20th century it was still understood that once you hit puberty you were no longer a child with the age of consent being as low as 7 in America in the 1880s but 10 to 12 in most states and it was raised to 16-18 in the 1920s because of angry feminist and reform movements and concerns about child sexual abuse and sexually transmitted infections.

The teenager is a mid 20th century invention”, . Until very recently in human history, it was normal for a 14 year old to be done with schooling, and be busy raising kids and working and honestly that is how it should be IMO.

mrlolicon93 wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 1:21 am Actually the concept of the teenager and teenhood didn't come about until the post WW 2 period and the definition of child was changed in the mid 2000s to anyone under 18 instead of someone who is under 13 which is what it used to be.

Even in the 1800s and throughout the 20th century it was still understood that once you hit puberty you were no longer a child with the age of consent being as low as 7 in America in the 1880s but 10 to 12 in most states and it was raised to 16-18 in the 1920s because of angry feminist and reform movements and concerns about child sexual abuse and sexually transmitted infections.

The teenager is a mid 20th century invention”, . Until very recently in human history, it was normal for a 14 year old to be done with schooling, and be busy raising kids and working and honestly that is how it should be IMO.

Yes, and dont get me wrong, I dont think any 14 year old should be FORCED to get married and have kids if they feel like they arent ready. If they want to wait till their 20s, hell if they want to wait till their 30s, I have zero problem with that. If they want to live at home till 30 and go to school till 50 I also dgaf, its their body, their life, and they should be allowed to go at their own pace. But what I DO have a problem with is young women in their teens being slutshamed and ridiculed for getting pregnant. What happened to my body my choice?

If a 25 year old accidently gets pregnant, she is given resources and social support to help with the baby, or easy access to abortion

If a 14 year old accidently gets pregnant, she is slut shamed and called “fast” by her peers and older adults. She is too scared to tell her parents, the people that she LEGALLY DEPENDS ON for basic healthcare, because her parents will disown her and leave her to fend for herself

If a 25 year old gets willingly pregnant. She is congratulated, gets to throw a baby shower and given gifts, she is legally allowed to get married to her partner to help raise the baby and has full control of her medical care

If a 14 year old willingly gets pregnant, she is called a fast slut. She is shamed and harassed for “growing up too fast”. No one wants to help her or support her or even congratulate her for her healthy baby, they just want to call her a stupid idiot slut. Her parents have a high chance of kicking her out of the house and leaving her homeless. She is not legally allowed to work full time or rent her own apartment to support the baby. She is not legally allowed to marry her partner to help support the baby. She is not in control of her body and medical care, her parents get to decide everything for her even though it is not their body or their baby.

She has a chance of being prosecuted for statutory rape and put on the sex offender registry/locked in prison, if it is found out that her boyfriend is the same age or younger than her, if her boyfriend is older than her, then he will be the one locked in prison and placed on the registry, so there goes her chances of having two parents in the babies life. People gossip about her in school and spread rumourd about her. She is not allowed to drop out to take care of the baby full time because it is mandatory for her to go to school, even if school is not for her and she would rather do a trade. She is not even legally allowed to drive and is entirely legally dependent on her parents for everything related to her and the baby, despite being a whole ass mother. She is no longer treated like a child yes, but shes not treated like an adult either, she is treated like a useless slut who is being punished with a bastard baby for being “fast” and “grown”. The village will not help her raise her child like they would the 25 year old, they will mock her and shame her, even at the babys expense. She has a high likelihood of abusing/neglecting her child, going homeless, or both, not because she is too “immature” to raise her offspring, but because society is too immature to let her have the same rights as a legal adult mother

There is nothing wrong with teen pregnancy, there is EVERYTHING wrong with the way society/the law treats pregnant teens. And you would think that if society hated pregnant teens so bad, they would do things to curb teen pregnancy, like proper in depth sex ed as early as possible, starting long before puberty, as kids sexually experiment as young as daycare. Letting minors have access to ways to blow of sexual steam besides sex, like letting minor's watch porn and buy sex toys so they can sexually pleasure themselves without having sex, but no, all that is 18+. Or letting minors buy condoms, go on birth control, or get abortions without their parents consent or being 18+, but no, all the options to PREVENT getting pregnant in the first place or get rid of a pregnancy are all regulated to legal adults or depends on your parents, even though it isnt even about them, its about YOU and YOUR BODY. And most parents wont consent to any of this anyways because they have the false notion that not only are teens children, but children are asexual and dont want or have sex in the first place, both of which are FALSE. Which forces teens to have to sneak around to have unsafe sex and leave their newborn babies dead in school trashcans or dumpsters and or running away from home to raise the kid/being kicked out. But even though being more open to teens about sex and more supportive if teen pregnancy/pregnant teens would either lower the rates of teen pregnancy, or make teen pregnancy as safe as legal adult pregnancy, or both, people would rather lock up teens in prison for having dumpster babies instead of analyzing what lead to the situation in the first place and fixing it

(And I know people will use the excuse that teens have less successful pregnancies than 20 year olds, that still doesn't defeat my above points, shaming them and treating them as asexual children just makes them have more unsafe and unprotected sex, not less, and 40+ years olds have even less successful pregnancies, but that doesnt make us ban 40+ year olds from consenting or not giving 40+ year old resources to raise their children, so why should that be the case for teens? And if pregnancy was so disruptive and deadly for teens, then they wouldn't be able to get pregnant in the first place and people would be in their 20s before they get their first period. So either humans, unlike every other species on earth, evolved for their young adults to do something that they are not only not capable of, but will destroy the the human and their body and their baby, which makes no biological and evolutionary sense, as the human race would be dead since everyone was fucking and getting pregnant before their 20th birthday for most of human history, or biological young adults who evolved to have offspring after millions of years of evolution are perfectly capable just like every other species on planet earth and it is our sex negative and infantile society based on sexual shame and secrecy and control that makes teens such incapable parents.

Judgey wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 11:41 pm In my experience, and believe me, there's a lot of it
They all totally turn on you the day they turn 18, every time.

14 seems much more mature than 18

Idk if its because im a MAP but to me 7-9 seems more mature than both 14 and 18. Unlike teenagers, kids actually have a desire to learn and be treated with respect, teens nowadays, want to be treated like innocent little babies and have everything handed to them on a silver platter. In the past, as in, pre 2000s, teens were a respectable age group, they rebelled against shitty ageist adult rules and fought for their right to have fun and be treated as equal to adults. Now adays teens want everything but, 17 year olds call themselves “children”, they dont lie about being adults to be respected in arguments or get into 18+ spaces(which shouldnt be 18+ in the first place as these spaces often have vast amounts of info that underaged teens can learn from), they brag and weaponize the fact that they are legal minors to accuse you of “bullying and harrassing literal children”. They support bans and infringes on the bodies, liberties, and freedoms to “protect children”. They accept their moms putting life 360 trackers on them and dont mind parental control apps. They no longer fight and rebel against adult tyranny and infantilization like they did before the 2000s. Now they not only accept the role ad the submissive powerless child, they weaponize it to their advantage to shit on adults who dare see them as equals deserving of respect.

“I respect your opinion enough to have an honest and open debate with you, I want to see things from your perspective and share my perspective and offer you helpful criticism that I think might assist you in the future”

“NOOOOOOO, im a 17 year old infant!!!1!2! Im a literal bebeh!!! Why r u harrassing a minor?? Why would you take my opinion seriously and treat it with respect?? Your supposed to dismiss me and treat me like a stupid rambaling child!1!1! How dare you im literally a minor 17 year old and ur a grown ass 18 year old adult!!1! Stop harrassing and bullying me!!1!1! ”

Referring to teens as biological adults is a stretch, but treating them as children is just ridiculous.

Rather than suggesting adolescence is an absurd social construct, it would be better to ask why adolescents don't have more adult rights, in my opinion.

There's also the issue of sexceptionalism, but perhaps that's a different debate.

BLueRibbon wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 1:25 pm Referring to teens as biological adults is a stretch, but treating them as children is just ridiculous.

Rather than suggesting adolescence is an absurd social construct, it would be better to ask why adolescents don't have more adult rights, in my opinion.

There's also the issue of sexceptionalism, but perhaps that's a different debate.

But they are? Biologically, an adult is someone who is capable of producing offspring, which happens in the modern day around 10-12, which teens are definently older than. Thats the case for every single species on planet earth INCLUDING humans until the 1800s, and is even still the case today in remote tribes unaffected by western ideals.

Adolescence was created in the 1800s shortly after the industrial revolution, before that, if you were old enough to bleed you were old enough to breed, there was no “transition state”. If you really want to argue that adolescence is a real thing, it should be 9-12, not 13-17, because 9-12 is when your body starts preparing to reproduce, aka, transitioning from a biological child to a biological adult.

Im calling it an absurd social construct because it is

1.Absurd, to treat people who are biological adults as anything but social or legal adults

2.It IS a social construct, it DID NOT EXIST prior to the industrial revolution and even to this day doesnt exist in every part of the world, like remote tribes untouched by western civilization, if it was really such a natural universal developmental stage and not an artificial social construct, then why did it not exist until the most recent couple of centuries? Why does it only exist in humans and not any other species on planet earth? Why is it not universal except for in places that have had their culture colonized by westerners(which is almost everywhere nowadays, but still not everywhere). And if it is such a “natural” phase of life thats totally not manmade, why does the definition keep changing depending on the decade and the insitution and person? Some places consider adolecense 10-19, others thing its 12-17, others think its 13-21, some think its as high as 13-24. Surely for such a natural and totally real not manmade part of life, the definition wouldnt be constantly shifting from person to person and arbitrarily raising higher and higher each decade, from institution to institution, decade to decade. If you want to use the more conservative definition of adulthood, a person who is “fully grown” that happens around 14-15 give or take depending on how old you were when you started puberty and if your male or female.

As someone who has worked with young people from 5yo all the way through adulthood, I honestly think you're pushing your definition of biological adult. Young teens really aren't matured at all, but they're also not children, they're not asexual, and I think they deserve greater rights. The 16/12 framework I wrote with Fragment is a reflection of this transitional stage.

BLueRibbon wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 1:41 pm As someone who has worked with young people from 5yo all the way through adulthood, I honestly think you're pushing your definition of biological adult. Young teens really aren't matured at all, but they're also not children, they're not asexual, and I think they deserve greater rights. The 16/12 framework I wrote with Fragment is a reflection of this transitional stage.

BLueRibbon, your response isn't really giving a clear counter-example to G@yWad's main argument, that teens are developed biologically if not socially. I'm more inclined to side with G@yWad here, but there is the fact that people tend not to reach their full height until about 14-16.