MAP Forum

The utopia for MAPs tends to be a society where sex is disentangled from power and just another activity, like a game; or a way to show love, in some variants. The obvious alternative would be a society where people had no sex drive, no sexuality. Procreation, if the utopia were to last more than a single generation, would necessitate technological means, maybe. Love would be shown in other ways.

This utopia is also very hard to achieve. It seems to require eugenics, the creation of second-class citizens (those who still have sex drive) and, still, it would be unlikely. But ignoring this, how do you feel about this sexless society? Which one do you prefer?

I am not sure. However, I think that all the oppression of deviants like MAPs would find another excuse to persist, if it's not sex. I don't know if we would be missing anything by eliminating sexuality. But fighting the anti-sexual attitudes is valuable by itself, not merely for any intrinsic value sex might have.

Learning to undeny wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2026 10:09 pm The utopia for MAPs tends to be a society where sex is disentangled from power and just another activity, like a game; or a way to show love, in some variants. The obvious alternative would be a society where people had no sex drive, no sexuality. Procreation, if the utopia were to last more than a single generation, would necessitate technological means, maybe. Love would be shown in other ways.

This utopia is also very hard to achieve. It seems to require eugenics, the creation of second-class citizens (those who still have sex drive) and, still, it would be unlikely. But ignoring this, how do you feel about this sexless society? Which one do you prefer?

I am not sure. However, I think that all the oppression of deviants like MAPs would find another excuse to persist, if it's not sex. I don't know if we would be missing anything by eliminating sexuality. But fighting the anti-sexual attitudes is valuable by itself, not merely for any intrinsic value sex might have.

You really think the reason we aren't feel to express our sexuality with children is because sex is intertwined with power, and that power is defined by the dominate cultures rules? I think it has more to do with natural selection favoring social cohesion to keep early human tribes stable and free from fighting to the death over mates or raising offspring that a man didn't father. That's why marriage, monogamy/limited polygamy, and family structures exist, survival pressures from resource scarce prehistoric enviorments favored humans that had social conservative values on sex over, and the ones that didn't were more unstable and got overly aggressive and territorial over mates. that's why almost all cultures have concepts like marriage, virginity, loyalty to a spouse and knowing who the father and mother of the children are.

Regarding lack of sex.
I've had loosely similar thoughts.Not really similar but I wish there was a way I could have "erotic sensation" just by cuddling and kissing very small female children without any penis contact, as if erogenous nerve endings were mapped to a different part of my body so I could in theory enjoy her in a non-controversial way and rich orgasm just by hugging and appreciating a little girl.

But real talk. There is no way you can eliminiate sexuality without establishing a toltalitarian government that removes people's gonads. lol

Learning to undeny wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2026 10:09 pm where sex is disentangled from power

I think this is not possible at all.

nicholas_weeks wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 12:22 am

Learning to undeny wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2026 10:09 pm where sex is disentangled from power

I think this is not possible at all.

Why do you think so? Just curious. Sex doesn't have to be about power at all; thinking in such a way is very narrow minded. Don't get me wrong, sex can be tied to power which is neither a good nor bad thing in of itself, but you could pretty much tie almost everything with power. What you said is very vague and came off has very narrow minded.

nicholas_weeks wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 12:22 am

Learning to undeny wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2026 10:09 pm where sex is disentangled from power

I think this is not possible at all.

OK, nothing I wrote in this post is possible... Although in a less extreme way, many of us want for sex to be a part of human relationships with less social consequences...

First of all, I want to say that I share Nicholas’s view, and that’s why I feel like joining in.

Brain O'Conner wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 1:50 amWhy do you think so? Just curious. Sex doesn't have to be about power at all; thinking in such a way is very narrow minded. Don't get me wrong, sex can be tied to power which is neither a good nor bad thing in of itself, but you could pretty much tie almost everything with power. What you said is very vague and came off has very narrow minded.

Well… I guess it depends on the definition of “power”.
I believe that, among all fetishes, the fascination with power (whether exerting it or being subjected to it) is the most widespread; from the allure of authority figures (teachers, military, artists, etc.) to fantasies of rape (experiencing it or committing it), and so on… I don’t think there’s any utopian society for anyone, one that separates sex from power, since power itself is erotic for many people.

If I consider myself in early adolescence, and think about a potential relationship with an older person, I believe such a relationship exists primarily because of the disparity in “power” (physical size, economic power, knowledge, protection, etc.), and I see nothing wrong with that, as it is simply what I would have sought in early adolescence. Being a fundamentally selfish animal, I want to drink from that power.

I understand the desire to distance oneself from the fantasy of exploitation, but it is the fantasy itself that is inherently flawed, not the power dynamics that this fantasy critiques. There is a difference between power and coercion.

Let’s be honest: it’s difficult to even have a social relationship that doesn’t contain some kind of power dynamic.

Not Forever wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 2:35 am First of all, I want to say that I share Nicholas’s view, and that’s why I feel like joining in.

Brain O'Conner wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 1:50 amWhy do you think so? Just curious. Sex doesn't have to be about power at all; thinking in such a way is very narrow minded. Don't get me wrong, sex can be tied to power which is neither a good nor bad thing in of itself, but you could pretty much tie almost everything with power. What you said is very vague and came off has very narrow minded.

Well… I guess it depends on the definition of “power”.
I believe that, among all fetishes, the fascination with power (whether exerting it or being subjected to it) is the most widespread; from the allure of authority figures (teachers, military, artists, etc.) to fantasies of rape (experiencing it or committing it), and so on… I don’t think there’s any utopian society for anyone, one that separates sex from power, since power itself is erotic for many people.

If I consider myself in early adolescence, and think about a potential relationship with an older person, I believe such a relationship exists primarily because of the disparity in “power” (physical size, economic power, knowledge, protection, etc.), and I see nothing wrong with that, as it is simply what I would have sought in early adolescence. Being a fundamentally selfish animal, I want to drink from that power.

I understand the desire to distance oneself from the fantasy of exploitation, but it is the fantasy itself that is inherently flawed, not the power dynamics that this fantasy critiques. There is a difference between power and coercion.

Let’s be honest: it’s difficult to even have a social relationship that doesn’t contain some kind of power dynamic.

So, again, narrow minded. Not that you're necessarily wrong, but very narrow minded into thinking that almost everyone fetishizes about power. And yes, power dynamics exist in all relationships but there is a difference between power dynamics and people who fetishizes about power or being dominated. Your example of yourself during early adolescence seeking after the power disparity is your prerogative, but then again, that is not everyone and a lot of people are not like that. Younger people can like older people or people in authority for a variety of reasons other than a power fetish. Hence way you come off as narrow minded. And as an FYI, I do not align with the poster's thoughts. That would be a hell if sexuality was taken away. Just a fucking hell.

Brain O'Conner wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 2:47 am

Not Forever wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 2:35 am First of all, I want to say that I share Nicholas’s view, and that’s why I feel like joining in.

Brain O'Conner wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 1:50 amWhy do you think so? Just curious. Sex doesn't have to be about power at all; thinking in such a way is very narrow minded. Don't get me wrong, sex can be tied to power which is neither a good nor bad thing in of itself, but you could pretty much tie almost everything with power. What you said is very vague and came off has very narrow minded.

Well… I guess it depends on the definition of “power”.
I believe that, among all fetishes, the fascination with power (whether exerting it or being subjected to it) is the most widespread; from the allure of authority figures (teachers, military, artists, etc.) to fantasies of rape (experiencing it or committing it), and so on… I don’t think there’s any utopian society for anyone, one that separates sex from power, since power itself is erotic for many people.

If I consider myself in early adolescence, and think about a potential relationship with an older person, I believe such a relationship exists primarily because of the disparity in “power” (physical size, economic power, knowledge, protection, etc.), and I see nothing wrong with that, as it is simply what I would have sought in early adolescence. Being a fundamentally selfish animal, I want to drink from that power.

I understand the desire to distance oneself from the fantasy of exploitation, but it is the fantasy itself that is inherently flawed, not the power dynamics that this fantasy critiques. There is a difference between power and coercion.

Let’s be honest: it’s difficult to even have a social relationship that doesn’t contain some kind of power dynamic.

So, again, narrow minded. Not that you're necessarily wrong, but very narrow minded into thinking that almost everyone fetishizes about power. And yes, power dynamics exist in all relationships but there is a difference between power dynamics and people who fetishizes about power or being dominated. Your example of yourself during early adolescence seeking after the power disparity is your prerogative, but then again, that is not everyone and a lot of people are not like that. Younger people can like older people or people in authority for a variety of reasons other than a power fetish. Hence way you come off as narrow minded. And as an FYI, I do not align with the poster's thoughts. That would be a hell if sexuality was taken away. Just a fucking hell.

Only the fetishization of rape concerns almost 50% of the population (at least the female population)… and we’re talking about just a single topic that can be traced back to power dynamics. I don’t know the data for other cases, although I would be tempted to also include all those people who, in their partner, seek alternative paternal figures. But here, I’m not sure how much of this is narrative or something else, yet I assume that even with just these two cases, we have already surpassed 50% of the population.

As for the rest, there are the Pornhub categories.
For me, this alone makes it the most common fetish, to the point of surpassing many sexual orientations.

Not Forever wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 2:51 am

Brain O'Conner wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 2:47 am

Not Forever wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 2:35 am First of all, I want to say that I share Nicholas’s view, and that’s why I feel like joining in.



Well… I guess it depends on the definition of “power”.
I believe that, among all fetishes, the fascination with power (whether exerting it or being subjected to it) is the most widespread; from the allure of authority figures (teachers, military, artists, etc.) to fantasies of rape (experiencing it or committing it), and so on… I don’t think there’s any utopian society for anyone, one that separates sex from power, since power itself is erotic for many people.

If I consider myself in early adolescence, and think about a potential relationship with an older person, I believe such a relationship exists primarily because of the disparity in “power” (physical size, economic power, knowledge, protection, etc.), and I see nothing wrong with that, as it is simply what I would have sought in early adolescence. Being a fundamentally selfish animal, I want to drink from that power.

I understand the desire to distance oneself from the fantasy of exploitation, but it is the fantasy itself that is inherently flawed, not the power dynamics that this fantasy critiques. There is a difference between power and coercion.

Let’s be honest: it’s difficult to even have a social relationship that doesn’t contain some kind of power dynamic.

So, again, narrow minded. Not that you're necessarily wrong, but very narrow minded into thinking that almost everyone fetishizes about power. And yes, power dynamics exist in all relationships but there is a difference between power dynamics and people who fetishizes about power or being dominated. Your example of yourself during early adolescence seeking after the power disparity is your prerogative, but then again, that is not everyone and a lot of people are not like that. Younger people can like older people or people in authority for a variety of reasons other than a power fetish. Hence way you come off as narrow minded. And as an FYI, I do not align with the poster's thoughts. That would be a hell if sexuality was taken away. Just a fucking hell.

Only the fetishization of rape concerns almost 50% of the population (at least the female population)… and we’re talking about just a single topic that can be traced back to power dynamics. I don’t know the data for other cases, although I would be tempted to also include all those people who, in their partner, seek alternative paternal figures. But here, I’m not sure how much of this is narrative or something else, yet I assume that even with just these two cases, we have already surpassed 50% of the population.

As for the rest, there are the Pornhub categories.
For me, this alone makes it the most common fetish, to the point of surpassing many sexual orientations.

Whaah? Okay dude, whatever. This shit is dumb. I never said it wasn't a frequent fetish; my main fucking point is that sex or sexual activity in of itself is neither tied or not tied to power; it's simply a manifestation. Here's a little excerpt of a paper I'm writing that is a bit related: "Emotions are an arrangement of chemicals/hormones that influence the way we feel. Emotions beget desire, and desire begets action. Everything that we have ever done is driven by emotions. There are countless number of emotions, but nearly all of them have their core primitive/survivalistic roots. For example, fear has its survivalistic roots from escaping danger. Anger has its survivalistic roots of getting through an obstacle in one's own path or goal. And so and so forth. Although nearly all emotions could be tied to the survivalistic roots themselves, that is not what the emotions necessarily mean or what they are. It’s simply just an expression of that emotion. In other words, the raw emotions themselves are undefined; meaning they do not have a defined purpose. This same notion applies to sexual feelings and desires."

Brain O'Conner wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2026 3:02 amWhaah? Okay dude, whatever. This shit is dumb. I never said it wasn't a frequent fetish; my main fucking point is that sex or sexual activity in of itself is neither tied or not tied to power; it's simply a manifestation. Here's a little excerpt of a paper I'm writing that is a bit related: "Emotions are an arrangement of chemicals/hormones that influence the way we feel. Emotions beget desire, and desire begets action. Everything that we have ever done is driven by emotions. There are countless number of emotions, but nearly all of them have their core primitive/survivalistic roots. For example, fear has its survivalistic roots from escaping danger. Anger has its survivalistic roots of getting through an obstacle in one's own path or goal. And so and so forth. Although nearly all emotions could be tied to the survivalistic roots themselves, that is not what the emotions necessarily mean or what they are. It’s simply just an expression of that emotion. In other words, the raw emotions themselves are undefined; meaning they do not have a defined purpose. This same notion applies to sexual feelings and desires."

What I’m saying is that every human relationship inherently involves a "power dynamic". It exists in social interactions, so it’s natural that it also manifests in the sexual sphere. And simply because we are social animals, this power dynamic inevitably finds its way into our relationships. It’s like talking about food or our need for sleep—it’s something so integral to our existence that it’s impossible to eliminate.

And since it’s something present everywhere, like everything that is ubiquitous, it becomes fetishized. Just as we fetishize food, work, or the moment of sleep, we fetishize what we engage with, the experiences we go through.

Regarding the origin of emotions… “fear has its survivalistic roots in escaping danger,” as I told someone else, I wouldn’t talk about origins or purposes when it comes to topics involving evolution, because there’s the whole concept of repurposing. Usually, people have a somewhat romanticized view, taking a context from somewhere in our evolutionary history and treating it as a "use case." But if we were living in that historical period today, we’d plant the same little flag even further back, perhaps using as a use case something more purely biological, like blood glucose. And 10,000 years from now, we might say that anger served to fight off anxiety triggered by an annoying Reddit post. I don’t know if I’m making myself clear.