MAP Forum

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:45 pm**

https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-pre ... e-platform

In the past five weeks, the German Federal Prosecutor's Office (Generalstaatsanwaltschaft Frankfurt am Main - Zentralstelle zur Bekämpfung der Internetkriminalität) and Federal Criminal Police Office (Bundeskriminalamt) have arrested a number of individuals suspected of the serious sexual abuse of children and the distribution of large amounts of child abuse material online. The German authorities have also taken down the child abuse platform Elysium.

The Elysium platform, built as a forum, has existed since the end of 2016 and was only accessible via the Darknet. With over 87 000 members worldwide, the platform was used to exchange child abuse material as well as to make appointments for the sexual abuse of children. Elysium also encompassed chat groups in German, French, Spanish and Italian.

The main suspect, a 39-year-old German national, was identified and arrested after several months of painstaking investigation. He is suspected of operating the platform, providing the technical infrastructure for it to operate.

Another arrestee, a 61-year-old individual from Bavaria, is suspected of the production and dissemination of child abuse material. In addition, he is suspected of the sexual abuse of two children aged 5 and 7 years. The victims are the children of an Austrian forum member.

An additional arrestee, a 56-year-old individual from Baden-Württemberg, was arrested under the suspicion of being the moderator of the forums of the platform and the chat groups.

In Austria, a 28 year-old individual was arrested. He is suspected of having participated in the dissemination of child abuse material, of having severely sexually abused his two children for years and facilitated the sexual abuse of his children by the above suspects.

All the suspects met and communicated via the child abuse platform Elysium, which was immediately shut down by German law enforcement after the server was seized.

Given the pan-European dimension on this operation, the European Agency for law enforcement cooperation Europol supported the investigation through analysis, co-ordination and by facilitating the exchange of operational data. Law enforcement agencies and partners included New Zealand Police, the Italian State Police - Postal and Communication Police Service and Australia's Task Force Argos from Queensland.

Steven Wilson, Head of the European Cybercrime Centre (EC3) at Europol, said: "The action of the German authorities assisted by Europol has resulted in the arrest of individuals involved not only in the physical abuse of children but the takedown of a platform, Elysium, used to distribute large amounts of child abuse material. This is a highly significant action in safeguarding children from abuse."

Further arrests are to be expected shortly in Germany, as well as in other European and non-European countries. To date, a total of 14 suspects have been arrested, among which 12 are suspected of having actively taken part in the abuse of children.

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:22 pm**

>darkweb forum with 87,000 members

That sounds like a lot, and I'm sure it's not the biggest such site. Assuming it's true, how do these sites have so many more members than above board MAP sites? Is PIM just that popular? Even the bigger MAP communities on the clearnet usually have under 1000 members.

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:44 pm**

There is obviously a massive demand for young bodies, via any medium however convoluted.

What's more concerning is that there is absolutely no discrimination as to how the images are obtained (i.e. by deception, blackmail, etc, vs old content, voluntarily provided, etc). These are the joys brought to us by total prohibition and insisting no one is sexually attracted to teenaged bodies or children.

Posted: **Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:02 am**

Phossu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:22 pm >darkweb forum with 87,000 members

There are approximately 1 million people on the sex offender registry in the US alone. From what I can tell between 25-35% of registrants are there for PIM related charges. In the UK in 2022/2033 there were 100,000 recorded offenses against minors. 40,000 of these were PIM related.

And most people getting caught for PIM offenses are either using clear web services, or making mistakes in terms of social opsec (trusting the wrong person, etc). The number not being caught is likely to be much higher. In fact an Australian study of 2000 men found that 2.5% of them admitted to viewing PIM (and another 4.2% admitted to viewing it while a minor themselves). So in the US, where there are approximately 100 million adult men, you're likely looking at at least 2.5 million people who have viewed PIM with (to take a very ball park figure) maybe 10% being arrested for it.

And as Jim says, this is all taking place underground (I won't say "black market" because there is very little evidence of money being exchanged in the majority of cases). Extreme abuse content and voluntarily uploaded self-generated content aren't differentiated so dark web PIM sites almost encourage users to ride the slippery slope to more extreme content over time. There are categories of PIM, but they are almost nonsensical. Category A is described by the IWF as "Images involving penetrative sexual activity; images involving sexual activity with an animal, or sadism", yet 896 self-generated images were described as Category A. For 419 of these images, the reason for categorization is "penetration by the minor's own finger". For another 232 images, penetration by a pen or pencil. If you view an image of a minor voluntarily penetrating themselves when that minor has subsequently voluntarily uploaded that image online you are guilty of viewing the worst type of image.

There are some slimy types of PIM. Even when a photo or video is sent voluntarily, sometimes the receiver further distributes it without consent. But are our laws actually doing anything to help? It seems to be just like any other kind of prohibition. Alcohol prohibition only benefited the Mafia. The war on drugs was a failure. The war on PIM, while not seeming to enrich criminals, is nonetheless failing to reduce use, while also not properly recognizing important moral distinctions such as between softcore, hardcore and hurtcore.

And that's without even taking into account the damage done to the MAP community. Many MAPs are content with images, but since those images are illegal they need to stay hidden. There is no impetuous to fight, no impetuous to change. Nor do people on the dark web have much opportunity to interact with MAPs that have healthier perspectives on fantasies or interacting with minors.

Posted: **Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:40 am**

Phossu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:22 pm >darkweb forum with 87,000 members

That sounds like a lot, and I'm sure it's not the biggest such site. Assuming it's true, how do these sites have so many more members than above board MAP sites? Is PIM just that popular? Even the bigger MAP communities on the clearnet usually have under 1000 members.

Some statistics suggest that there are at least hundreds of millions of people involved in illegal sexual and related activities with minors, including PIM and "grooming". However, it is difficult to know for sure unless all of them are caught by the authorities, which would flood the prisons, imagine lots and lots prisons filled only with people who in many cases have fairly common sexual preferences.

Posted: **Thu Oct 10, 2024 5:31 pm**

Thank you Fragment for going into such detail and providing links, this is new information for me and these statistics are sobering.

Fragment wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:02 am But are our laws actually doing anything to help? It seems to be just like any other kind of prohibition. Alcohol prohibition only benefited the Mafia. The war on drugs was a failure. The war on PIM, while not seeming to enrich criminals, is nonetheless failing to reduce use, while also not properly recognizing important moral distinctions such as between softcore, hardcore and hurtcore.

It is clear to me that the laws around PIM as they exist are far too blunt and are doing very little to actually protect children or serve the community. I'm not sure about any specific policy proposals here, but significant change is needed.

Fragment wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:02 am Nor do people on the dark web have much opportunity to interact with MAPs that have healthier perspectives on fantasies or interacting with minors.

This is concerning. I know little about these underground communities because I intend to stay far away from PIM, but I can see how pushing people underground only serves to perpetuate an unhealthy environment. This effects our efforts as well, forums like this disable DMs out of an abundance of caution. It's a difficult situation because I imagine many people in these underground communities really need and want help, but even doing something simple like trying to reach out to them could be extremely dangerous given the illegality.

This whole situation makes me sad. There are so many people out there being victimized, minors and MAPs alike.

MAP Forum

14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform

14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform

Re: 14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform

Re: 14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform

Re: 14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform

Re: 14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform

Re: 14 arrests in takedown of massive "child sexual abuse" platform