Should people meet in person more?

[Grunko]

Unfortunately for us, the LGBT community conveniently forget the sacrifices made by their forebears to provide them with the quality of life they now take for granted.

This may be may an uncomfortable opinion, but I think it needs to be said that no one owes us anything, Strato. The LGBT community is not obligated to take us in, risk anything for us, or make any sacrifices for us. The fact that we relied on another community to liberate or in someway improve our lives is our own fault. It was a risk we took, and a deeply miscalculated one at that.

In MAP spaces, there appears to be this belief that they should've helped us or done something for us when in reality every community will only ever act in its own interests. When queer folks began gaining acceptance, they threw us away and formally rejected us. That's true. But if we want a better quality of life for ourselves, we have to fight for it on our own.

Whether the LGBTQ movement decides to accept us or not, the MAP movement seems to be doing well by itself. Also I noticed we have over 425 members in MU and I noticed every day, at least 1 new member joins. I predict MU would have 600 members in August 2025 and in two years time, there would be about 1500 members.

[Strato]

Unfortunately for us, the LGBT community conveniently forget the sacrifices made by their forebears to provide them with the quality of life they now take for granted.

This may be may an uncomfortable opinion, but I think it needs to be said that no one owes us anything, Strato. The LGBT community is not obligated to take us in, risk anything for us, or make any sacrifices for us. The fact that we relied on another community to liberate or in someway improve our lives is our own fault. It was a risk we took, and a deeply miscalculated one at that.

In MAP spaces, there appears to be this belief that they should've helped us or done something for us when in reality every community will only ever act in its own interests. When queer folks began gaining acceptance, they threw us away and formally rejected us. That's true. But if we want a better quality of life for ourselves, we have to fight for it on our own.

“In MAP spaces, there appears to be this belief that they should've helped us or done something for us …”

My point was, we were once a single community thanks to the pioneering work of Karl Ulrichs with regard to sexual liberation, sexology, and ‘third sex’ theory which encompassed paederasts and paedophiles. Magnus Hirschfield later developed political strategies via age of consent law to secure greater tolerance for homosexual men, but to achieve this, the Scientific-Humanitarian Committee which he founded, upheld criminal law outlawing homosexual acts between adults and minors. We have long since lost Ulrichs vision of sexual liberation.

“… when in reality every community will only ever act in its own interests.”

Each one of ‘us’ is not obligated to risk anything for others either. And therein lies the problem.

This may be an uncomfortable opinion also. We can hardly call ourselves a community whilst hiding behind the parapet online within anonymous talking shops. Historically, human rights battles have tended to be won as a result of in-real-life activism and political nous.