This is why I love teenagers

[Rolo]

I don't know if I would call it open-minded, I would rather say that they operate within a different framework. The framework of the older generation when it comes to crimes and things that they don't accept is primarily punitive. That is, they wish to punish and attack everything that they don't approve of. From what I see of the comments on this thread, the commenters operate within the framework of a psychiatric/psychological approach, which corresponds with the change in elite discourse from punishment towards control , as well as an empowerment of the psychiatric/psychological/therapy industry. Some countries, such as the Netherlands, have an (inconsistent) therapeutic response to pedophilia, which can actually entail someone being within a mental facility for an undetermined length of time, until they are no longer deemed a threat to the public. So the therapeutic response of helping pedophiles could be just as bad, if not worse, than the punitive response in some cases.

What needs to be done first is a questioning of the common discourse and a true understanding of it and how it operates, rather than trying to jump on a bandwagon that will just throw us off anyway.

[FairBlueLove]

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comm ... edophiles/

Almost all the comments are supportive, at least regarding NOMAPs. Teens are just so much more open-minded. Sadly, I feel that many of these supportive people will start to fade in supportiveness as they age and have kids of their own.

Reddit - which I don't frequent - must really be an awful place, if this is considered a somewhat positive thread.

Yes, supportive, but in which way?

"nurse some of them back to a normal human status"
"to help their illness"
"They are sick"

Again, I'm not used to Reddit, but reading through this thread made me feel quite sad.

[ZeroXJoker]

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comm ... edophiles/

Almost all the comments are supportive, at least regarding NOMAPs. Teens are just so much more open-minded. Sadly, I feel that many of these supportive people will start to fade in supportiveness as they age and have kids of their own.

Reddit - which I don't frequent - must really be an awful place, if this is considered a somewhat positive thread.

Yes, supportive, but in which way?

"nurse some of them back to a normal human status"
"to help their illness"
"They are sick"

Again, I'm not used to Reddit, but reading through this thread made me feel quite sad.

i think not straight up saying we are monsters that deserved to be vaporized from existence is improvement from the norm.

I know my brain works I think differently than most people's does but even as a MAP I do feel normal. I don't see what I have as an "illness" or that I am "sick" considering my attraction is strictly secondary not primary or exclusive. Just as I don't see other paraphilias as wrong or those individuals as sick.

[ZeroXJoker]

I'm definitely not a supporter of the pathologization approach in any strategic sense. I agree that being institutionalized can be just as bad, or worse, than being imprisoned. In terms of policy I don't support it.

However I shared this because I felt that the level of compassion was higher than I've seen in most threads about pedophilia. It's misplaced and it still accepts the narrative that we are potentially harmful. But it's still better than most discussions. It's a low bar, I know, but it's step one of the battle. Just to be seen as human. Then we can start to focus more on our needs as humans.

Saying that we need help is at least better than saying we need to be wiped from existence like most people say about us.

[Rolo]

I don't know if I would call it open-minded, I would rather say that they operate within a different framework. The framework of the older generation when it comes to crimes and things that they don't accept is primarily punitive. That is, they wish to punish and attack everything that they don't approve of. From what I see of the comments on this thread, the commenters operate within the framework of a psychiatric/psychological approach, which corresponds with the change in elite discourse from punishment towards control , as well as an empowerment of the psychiatric/psychological/therapy industry. Some countries, such as the Netherlands, have an (inconsistent) therapeutic response to pedophilia, which can actually entail someone being within a mental facility for an undetermined length of time, until they are no longer deemed a threat to the public. So the therapeutic response of helping pedophiles could be just as bad, if not worse, than the punitive response in some cases.

What needs to be done first is a questioning of the common discourse and a true understanding of it and how it operates, rather than trying to jump on a bandwagon that will just throw us off anyway.

I'm definitely not a supporter of the pathologization approach in any strategic sense. I agree that being institutionalized can be just as bad, or worse, than being imprisoned. In terms of policy I don't support it.

However I shared this because I felt that the level of compassion was higher than I've seen in most threads about pedophilia. It's misplaced and it still accepts the narrative that we are potentially harmful. But it's still better than most discussions. It's a low bar, I know, but it's step one of the battle. Just to be seen as human. Then we can start to focus more on our needs as humans.

In my opinion, the main issues that create and intensify the view of hatred against pedophilia are the lack of youth agency, the infantilization and perceived vulnerability of youth, and the trauma model of psychology itself. I don't think that pedophiles being seen as human is necessarily the issue, as I'm sure that the same teens in that reddit thread would be against relationships with age gaps, even when the younger partner is legal. Regularly on reddit, you can see posts where people are adamantly against, for example, a 25 year old with a 40 year old, as gross and disgusting and taking advantage of the younger partner. But do we really have the issue that people think it's so weird to find a 25 year old attractive as we do for finding a 10 year old attractive? I don't think that is the case. So to add to my previous list, there's also the idea of the act or the attraction or the interaction between people of different age groups as being gross and inappropriate in itself.

So then the MAP approach as an extension of the LGBT movement, that is, seeing pedophiles as humans just as gays were humanized, should be called into question, as the direction of travel is further towards the direction which I listed. Youth perceive themselves ever more as vulnerable, there is no advocacy for youth agency, movements such as #MeToo have been popular among youth, and they perceive age gaps even in friendships as inappropriate and unacceptable. So then it will be a continuation or worsening of the same, with even more people punished, since all age gaps are demonized, but it will potentially be under a therapeutic paradigm.

[ZeroXJoker]

I'm sure that the same teens in that reddit thread would be against relationships with age gaps, even when the younger partner is legal. Regularly on reddit, you can see posts where people are adamantly against, for example, a 25 year old with a 40 year old, as gross and disgusting and taking advantage of the younger partner. But do we really have the issue that people think it's so weird to find a 25 year old attractive as we do for finding a 10 year old attractive? I don't think that is the case. So to add to my previous list, there's also the idea of the act or the attraction or the interaction between people of different age groups as being gross and inappropriate in itself.

So then the MAP approach as an extension of the LGBT movement, that is, seeing pedophiles as humans just as gays were humanized, should be called into question, as the direction of travel is further towards the direction which I listed. Youth perceive themselves ever more as vulnerable, there is no advocacy for youth agency, movements such as #MeToo have been popular among youth, and they perceive age gaps even in friendships as inappropriate and unacceptable. So then it will be a continuation or worsening of the same, with even more people punished, since all age gaps are demonized, but it will potentially be under a therapeutic paradigm.

People seem to have this thing against age gaps and I'm not a teen anymore but I never saw a problem with them personally but I think that was because I seen it often enough. My dad's adoptive parents were 10 years part and my mom's parents were about 11 years ago. My one aunt dated a guy much older than her for as long as I could remember got married then divorced. At my old job a lot of people were in relationships or married someone a lot older than them (not always their first marriage but point stands).

I have a big thing for age gaps myself but that is just me. I am on a few subreddits for age gap relationships and one where it is often younger women (of legal age) who have things for much older guys (some for guys almost old enough to be there dad or grandad in some cases) and there we all for it because we generally don't see it as a bad thing.

[Rin]

Teens are much smarter than the governments want us to believe, today's modern soyciety pretend that they're dumb.

[G@yWad69]

COMPLETELY disagree, im in that age group, and most teenagers are VERY punitive when it comes to sex taboos and sex crimes. They will accuse someone of “gr00ming” them if an adult makes a sex joke or tells them theyre a pretty. Will advocate for the death penalty and killing of MAPs for finding them attractive, will claim that they are scared to go outside because some 20 year old will think they have a fat ass or something??? They are the MOST punitive and puritan of all age groups. Theres even a name for them “puriteens” search it up.

They barge into 18+ spaces and whine about how they are scarred for life and have nightmares because they saw big breasted furry porn. They purposefully bait and flirt with older men, complain that older men dont find them attractive when the older man resists, complain that older men find them attractive when they dont. They make up false accusations, the claim that even a two year age gap is “literal pdf gr00ming” and “grape” they weaponize their status as minors to win arguements. “YOUR ARGUING WITH A MINOR, A LITERAL CHILD!1!1”

they accuse people of “pdfili@“ over the supidist shit “YOU POSTED AN 18+ SEC FANFIC ON YOUR 18+ ACCOUNT, IM A LITERAL 17 YEAR OLD CHILD AND I AN TRAUMATIZED DESPITE WILLINGLY READING THIS AND YOU NEED JAIL TIME-YOU BASICALLY GR00MED ME!1!1” they infantilize themselves “IM ONLY 17, I AM AN INNOCENT PURE VIRGIN CHILD WHO DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHAT SEX IS AND YOU ARE GR00MING ME BY POSTING YOUR 18+ RATED FANFIC ONLINE WHERE INNOCENT LITTLE MINORS CAN SEE!! Im TRAUMATIZED” then they complain when people give into their puriteen wishes “MINORS DNI IS STUPID, HWY WONT YOU INTERACT WITH ME??”

Then complain some more “NO MINORS DNI?? WHY ARE YOU INTERACTING WITH ME, A LITERAL 17 YEAR OLD CHILD???” Then complain “IM LITERALLY GR00MED AND TRAUMATIZED BY SEEING TWO ADULTS HAVING KINKY ROLEPLAY ON AN 18+ SITE I WILLINGLILY VISITED AND LIED ABOUT MY AGE TO GET INTO, I AM JUST A 17 YEAR OLD CHILD AND NEED TO BE PROTECTED AND TAKE ZERO RESPONISBILLITY FOR MY ACTIONS” then complain even more “WHY ARE YOU RAISING THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA TO 18+?? I AM NOT A CHILD I AM AN ALMOST LEGAL ADULT” then complain even more “I WILLINGILLY FLIRTED WITH A 20 YEAR OLD ONLINE AT 17 AND I AM SOMEHOW A VICTIM PAY ATTENTION TO ME1!!” And still complain “HOW COME MINORS ARENT BEING ALLOWED ON SOCIAL MEDIA ANYMORE, HOW COME MINORS ARENT ALLOWED OUT PAST 8?? HOW COME NO ADULT WANTS TO TALK TO US AND TELLS US MDNI AND TO FUCK OFF AND THAT THEY HATE US??”

Maybe because teenagers are fucking awful these days?? Specifically the minor ones?? They claim that everything is grooming and traumatizing and that every adult interaction is scary and traumatizing and that they are little babies who need to be coddled and supervised 24/7 so that they dont get scared and traumtized by the “pdfs” they willingly seek out and flirt with and that they are too young for any kind of sexuality even though they are going through or finishing puberty, yknow, the thing that makes you sexually mature, then whine and complain when adults try to prevent them from interacting with “pdfs” by putting MDNI and 18+ labels and giving them curfews and bed times and making social media 16 or 18+.

Tldr, minor teenagers bitch and whine about pdfs then willingly seek out and bait pdfs at every chance they get then whine and complain about pdfs taking their bait. Unlike children, they dont learn. A child would be told that a stove is too hot to touch it, so then they would touch it find out and then not touch it again. A teenager would touch the stove, then touch it again, then touch it again, the purposefully turn the stove on when they stove has been turned off then bitch and whine about being victims to the stove, then purposefully go out and buy a new stove when the stove has been removed, turn it on, and still come out being “innocent children victims” to the stove. Thats basically how I see teenage “gr00ming”. Except in this case, the stove doesnt even hurt, it just has the POSIBILLITY of hurting due to the “temprature power dynamic” or something so the teenager feigns being severely injured and ignores all the time the stove cooked her eggs and gave her bacon.

They also want to be treated like children when its convenient then bitch and whine when they are treated like children. They also weaponize their status as “lIteRal MinOrS” to purposefully start fights with or harrass adults and then complain that YOU are bullying THEM on the sole basis that they are minors. They also demand to be respected as equal to adults then bitch and whine when you actually respect their opinions as equals and they start loosing the argument, then they are suddenly “children” again who dont know any better. Basically they are a bitchy whiny age group who weaponize their status as biological adults but legal children to be perma victims who can do no wrong and hurt everyone. They are more sensitive and easily traumatized then actual children. A 9 year old would see boobs in a comic and be like “boobies, nice” a 16 year old would purposefully seek out an 18+ sex comic, see boobs in the comic and be like “IM LITERALLY TRAUMATIZED THIS IS SEXUALIZATION IM BEING GROOMED BOOBS ARE SO SCARY THIS IS ABUSE THIS COMIC ARTIST SHOULD BE CANCELLED FOR GROOMING ME IM TRAUMATIZED FOR LIFE!1!1!”

[Officerkrupke]

COMPLETELY disagree, im in that age group, and most teenagers are VERY punitive when it comes to sex taboos and sex crimes. They will accuse someone of “gr00ming” them if an adult makes a sex joke or tells them theyre a pretty. Will advocate for the death penalty and killing of MAPs for finding them attractive, will claim that they are scared to go outside because some 20 year old will think they have a fat ass or something??? They are the MOST punitive and puritan of all age groups. Theres even a name for them “puriteens” search it up.

They barge into 18+ spaces and whine about how they are scarred for life and have nightmares because they saw big breasted furry porn. They purposefully bait and flirt with older men, complain that older men dont find them attractive when the older man resists, complain that older men find them attractive when they dont. They make up false accusations, the claim that even a two year age gap is “literal pdf gr00ming” and “grape” they weaponize their status as minors to win arguements. “YOUR ARGUING WITH A MINOR, A LITERAL CHILD!1!1”

they accuse people of “pdfili@“ over the supidist shit “YOU POSTED AN 18+ SEC FANFIC ON YOUR 18+ ACCOUNT, IM A LITERAL 17 YEAR OLD CHILD AND I AN TRAUMATIZED DESPITE WILLINGLY READING THIS AND YOU NEED JAIL TIME-YOU BASICALLY GR00MED ME!1!1” they infantilize themselves “IM ONLY 17, I AM AN INNOCENT PURE VIRGIN CHILD WHO DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHAT SEX IS AND YOU ARE GR00MING ME BY POSTING YOUR 18+ RATED FANFIC ONLINE WHERE INNOCENT LITTLE MINORS CAN SEE!! Im TRAUMATIZED” then they complain when people give into their puriteen wishes “MINORS DNI IS STUPID, HWY WONT YOU INTERACT WITH ME??”

Then complain some more “NO MINORS DNI?? WHY ARE YOU INTERACTING WITH ME, A LITERAL 17 YEAR OLD CHILD???” Then complain “IM LITERALLY GR00MED AND TRAUMATIZED BY SEEING TWO ADULTS HAVING KINKY ROLEPLAY ON AN 18+ SITE I WILLINGLILY VISITED AND LIED ABOUT MY AGE TO GET INTO, I AM JUST A 17 YEAR OLD CHILD AND NEED TO BE PROTECTED AND TAKE ZERO RESPONISBILLITY FOR MY ACTIONS” then complain even more “WHY ARE YOU RAISING THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA TO 18+?? I AM NOT A CHILD I AM AN ALMOST LEGAL ADULT” then complain even more “I WILLINGILLY FLIRTED WITH A 20 YEAR OLD ONLINE AT 17 AND I AM SOMEHOW A VICTIM PAY ATTENTION TO ME1!!” And still complain “HOW COME MINORS ARENT BEING ALLOWED ON SOCIAL MEDIA ANYMORE, HOW COME MINORS ARENT ALLOWED OUT PAST 8?? HOW COME NO ADULT WANTS TO TALK TO US AND TELLS US MDNI AND TO FUCK OFF AND THAT THEY HATE US??”

Maybe because teenagers are fucking awful these days?? Specifically the minor ones?? They claim that everything is grooming and traumatizing and that every adult interaction is scary and traumatizing and that they are little babies who need to be coddled and supervised 24/7 so that they dont get scared and traumtized by the “pdfs” they willingly seek out and flirt with and that they are too young for any kind of sexuality even though they are going through or finishing puberty, yknow, the thing that makes you sexually mature, then whine and complain when adults try to prevent them from interacting with “pdfs” by putting MDNI and 18+ labels and giving them curfews and bed times and making social media 16 or 18+.

Tldr, minor teenagers bitch and whine about pdfs then willingly seek out and bait pdfs at every chance they get then whine and complain about pdfs taking their bait. Unlike children, they dont learn. A child would be told that a stove is too hot to touch it, so then they would touch it find out and then not touch it again. A teenager would touch the stove, then touch it again, then touch it again, the purposefully turn the stove on when they stove has been turned off then bitch and whine about being victims to the stove, then purposefully go out and buy a new stove when the stove has been removed, turn it on, and still come out being “innocent children victims” to the stove. Thats basically how I see teenage “gr00ming”. Except in this case, the stove doesnt even hurt, it just has the POSIBILLITY of hurting due to the “temprature power dynamic” or something so the teenager feigns being severely injured and ignores all the time the stove cooked her eggs and gave her bacon.

They also want to be treated like children when its convenient then bitch and whine when they are treated like children. They also weaponize their status as “lIteRal MinOrS” to purposefully start fights with or harrass adults and then complain that YOU are bullying THEM on the sole basis that they are minors. They also demand to be respected as equal to adults then bitch and whine when you actually respect their opinions as equals and they start loosing the argument, then they are suddenly “children” again who dont know any better. Basically they are a bitchy whiny age group who weaponize their status as biological adults but legal children to be perma victims who can do no wrong and hurt everyone. They are more sensitive and easily traumatized then actual children. A 9 year old would see boobs in a comic and be like “boobies, nice” a 16 year old would purposefully seek out an 18+ sex comic, see boobs in the comic and be like “IM LITERALLY TRAUMATIZED THIS IS SEXUALIZATION IM BEING GROOMED BOOBS ARE SO SCARY THIS IS ABUSE THIS COMIC ARTIST SHOULD BE CANCELLED FOR GROOMING ME IM TRAUMATIZED FOR LIFE!1!1!”

Sounds like the teens on TikTok/ Tumblr. They are exhausting but very representative of the new generation which is sex-averse, sex-negative.

[Fragment]

Considering the original post is gone, I'm not sure why this topic from almost a year ago was necroed.