The First Amendment and Free Speech.

[BLueRibbon]

Talking of hot potatoes being dropped, I note the UK police are now threatening US citizens, and by implication anyone anywhere in the world, with arrest in order to limit the spread of harmful misinformation.

From WaPo of August 10:

'London’s Metropolitan Police chief warned that officials will not only be cracking down on British citizens for commentary on the riots in the UK, but on American citizens as well. “We will throw the full force of the law at people. And whether you’re in this country committing crimes on the streets or committing crimes from further afield online, we will come after you,” Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley told Sky News.

One key aspect that makes this apparent crackdown on social media particularly shocking to critics is that the British government is threatening to extradite American citizens from the U.S. to be jailed in the U.K. for violating their rules about political speech online.

A Sky News reporter asked Commissioner Rowley to further explain his warning, arguing that high profile figures have been “whipping up the hatred,” and that “the likes of Elon Musk” have been getting involved. She then asked what the police force’s plan will be “when it comes to dealing with people who are whipping up this kind of behavior from behind the keyboard who may be in a different country?”

Rowley answered by telling the reporter, “Being a keyboard warrior does not make you safe from the law.” “You can be guilty of offenses of incitement, of stirring up racial hatred, there are numerous terrorist offenses regarding the publishing of material,” he said. “All of those offenses are in play if people are provoking hatred and violence on the streets, and we will come after those individuals just as we will physically confront on the streets the thugs and the yobs who are taking — who are causing the problems for communities.”

Elon Musk has made headlines for criticizing Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer’s response to the riots over the past week, suggesting the UK is headed toward “civil war.” He also responded to a video of someone allegedly arrested for offensive online comments with a question, “Is this Britain or the Soviet Union?” Starmer’s spokesperson said there was “no justification” for Musk’s comments, adding that social media companies “can and should be doing” more to combat misinformation, the BBC reported. He added that such companies “have a responsibility” to stop the spread of criminal activity and limit misinformation.'

Forgive the length of the above extract, but having read it, I could well imagine the current UK government categorising pro-pedophilia discussion as misinformation, harmful to society, and thus subject to arrest warrants. Is anyone else here concerned about Rowley's warning in relation to the debates we engage in on this forum?

The US has been playing world police for quite some time. It's not surprising to see the UK get in on the action too.

Activism of any kind is inherently risky. You can do your best to protect yourself, but if your adversary is one of the world's most powerful governments, you have to accept that you are not 100% safe even if you believe you're following the law.

[argosy]

Forgive the length of the above extract, but having read it, I could well imagine the current UK government categorising pro-pedophilia discussion as misinformation, harmful to society, and thus subject to arrest warrants. Is anyone else here concerned about Rowley's warning in relation to the debates we engage in on this forum?

People should be concerned, and they should be taking precautions as a result. On my part, I use Tor to access this site, ensuring that my real IP address never shows up in the site logs. Similarly, I am using a secure email address, the contents of which are both encrypted and anonymized -- even if my email inbox were to be seized, an investigator would learn nothing. Governments in the West are becoming more authoritarian, and more intrusive into the lives of their citizenry. Just look at Australia -- it has become a de-facto surveillance state. The UK is much the same.

The country where I live (Canada) likely regards this site as illegal -- virtually anything to do with kids and sex is classified as child pornography under draconian Canadian laws. In just the last 5 years, an author (Yvan Godbout) was put on trial over a 200-odd page novel -- a re-telling of Hansel and Gretel. In this dark re-telling of a familiar story, Mr. Godbout included one or two paragraphs describing the sexual abuse of Gretel by her abusive father. Mr. Godbout and his publisher were both put on trial for publishing child pornography.

After a very lengthy ordeal, Mr. Godbout was acquitted, but he is now a literal pariah -- all of his friends abandoned him; his publisher is virtually bankrupt -- both men are, basically, ruined.

The Crown now says that Godbout never should have been prosecuted, but the damage is already done.

Now, with respect to the U.S.-U.K. extradition treaty, it has always been used to extradite hapless Britons (like the operator of TVShack) and put them on trial in American courtrooms. My understanding is that almost no Americans have found themselves extradited to the U.K.

In my view, an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. If I cannot be located, I cannot be arrested and put on trial on spurious legal grounds.

[Strato]

Forgive the length of the above extract, but having read it, I could well imagine the current UK government categorising pro-pedophilia discussion as misinformation, harmful to society, and thus subject to arrest warrants. Is anyone else here concerned about Rowley's warning in relation to the debates we engage in on this forum?

People should be concerned, and they should be taking precautions as a result. On my part, I use Tor to access this site, ensuring that my real IP address never shows up in the site logs. Similarly, I am using a secure email address, the contents of which are both encrypted and anonymized -- even if my email inbox were to be seized, an investigator would learn nothing. Governments in the West are becoming more authoritarian, and more intrusive into the lives of their citizenry. Just look at Australia -- it has become a de-facto surveillance state. The UK is much the same.

The country where I live (Canada) likely regards this site as illegal -- virtually anything to do with kids and sex is classified as child pornography under draconian Canadian laws. In just the last 5 years, an author (Yvan Godbout) was put on trial over a 200-odd page novel -- a re-telling of Hansel and Gretel. In this dark re-telling of a familiar story, Mr. Godbout included one or two paragraphs describing the sexual abuse of Gretel by her abusive father. Mr. Godbout and his publisher were both put on trial for publishing child pornography.

After a very lengthy ordeal, Mr. Godbout was acquitted, but he is now a literal pariah -- all of his friends abandoned him; his publisher is virtually bankrupt -- both men are, basically, ruined.

The Crown now says that Godbout never should have been prosecuted, but the damage is already done.

Now, with respect to the U.S.-U.K. extradition treaty, it has always been used to extradite hapless Britons (like the operator of TVShack) and put them on trial in American courtrooms. My understanding is that almost no Americans have found themselves extradited to the U.K.

In my view, an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. If I cannot be located, I cannot be arrested and put on trial on spurious legal grounds.

Re prevention, agree with what you say argosy, particularly in these increasingly unpredictable times. From what I have seen, the Canadian powers that be have been breathtakingly draconian in the treatment of their electorate. Even though my base is a country that continues to resist EU globalist diktats, things can turn on a dime. On the topic of censorship, I am often left wondering how we can effect any change to our situation at all. The past is littered with initiatives such as Mu, and all that results is talking shops.

[Harlan]

Elon Musk Quote on Bill Maher Show:

...we must protect free speech and Free Speech only matters it's only relevant when it's someone you don't like saying something in your life because obviously every speech that you like is uh yes that's easy so it it's uh and it's the thing about censorship is that sure for those who would Advocate it um just remember at some point that will be turned on you
https://youtube.com/shorts/aGEIe1YNTLc

As we already know, his speech turned out to be just empty words. Musk blocks MAP accounts on Twitter because he doesn’t like what they say about MAP/ Youth sexuality, advocating exclusively for voluntary and mutual relationships without coercion and rape.

At the same time, Musk was talking with Bill Maher, that same Bill Maher, who known for his provocative trolling on the topic of inter-age relationships.
https://fstube.net/w/8sC9gZ11wWt1HAGQo9dFpK
https://fstube.net/w/fPrZWTw9vYhHmVBV55Afgp

[Fragment]

As we already know, his speech turned out to be just empty words. Musk blocks MAP accounts on Twitter because he doesn’t like what they say about MAP/ Youth sexuality, advocating exclusively for voluntary and mutual relationships without coercion and rape.

If Musk was just responding to public pressure around MAPs and censoring us in response to backlash, I'd get it. The other tech companies do the same. But no. He is helping lead the witch hunt.

[Harlan]

Rowan Atkinson on freespeech in UK.
This 9 minutes speech has become even more relevant.

"The strongest weapon against hateful speech, is not repression, is more speech. If we want a robust society we need robust dialogue and that must include the right to insult or to offend."

https://youtu.be/BiqDZlAZygU