I kind of think there's a question over it's severity. For example, should groping be treated as something more severe than punching someone? It seems like an example of sexceptionalism.CynicalOptimist wrote: Thu Jul 03, 2025 9:04 am Unwanted groping is an expression of rape culture, but it is also illegal. As far as I know, there are no MAPs who advocate for making it legal for adults to grope minors—or anyone else—without their consent
I feel like in practice, freedom to express sexual interest in anyone is something heavily stigmatized, even if it's legal. The line between unwanted attention and other problems is blurry, like if you try to draw a line where the maximum amount of unwanted attention can be expressed versus stalking and sexual harassment it shows the issue is more the intention or attitude of the person giving unwanted attention than their actions.I don’t believe that most forms of unwanted attention are part of rape culture. Instead, they seem to be an unintended but inevitable consequence of the sexual revolution. If everyone has the freedom to express sexual interest toward anyone else, it’s inevitable that sometimes people will be approached or propositioned by those they find unattractive. Most of those on the receiving end of such unwanted attention are women and girls, since men tend to be the ones doing the approaching and propositioning. Overtly pushy men are a real issue for women to deal with, but I can't think of any solution beyond criminalizing pushiness as sexual harassment, which society already does.
True, but my point is about the psychological symbolic function MAP related issues serves. It's a microcosm of women's relationship to heterosexual men; if you can't stop unwanted attention from men, then you can vicariously get back a sense of control through stopping MAPs from expressing sexual attention to children.In a hypothetical society where the age of consent is abolished, more minors would receive unwanted romantic and sexual attention, but more minors would also receive wanted romantic and sexual attention. It goes both ways. In today's society, parents warn their children about pedophiles, and as a result, many children are deeply afraid of them. This undoubtedly heightens the fear factor when, for example, a stranger approaches or even just stares at them, far beyond what it otherwise would be.
I kind of feel this is the point we're already at, considering how few of Gen Z have sex. A lot of expression of sexual interest in others is preemptively closed down before it can even happen, because of the possibility that it could be unwanted (recall that part of the Gillette ad where one man stops another before he can even speak to a woman; this is the sexual ethos Gen Z has been raised on). I think this idea that every part of the sexual relationship has to involve affirmative consent fails because of this; you can never know in advance of asking a person whether they'll want sexual attention.Many adult women don't want men to randomly approach them to make sexual advances, and they would be horrified at the thought of this happening to children. The main problem with this kind of sex-negative attitude is that, if taken to its logical conclusion, no one would express sexual interest in anyone else anymore, and we’d end up right back where we were before the sexual revolution. After all, it’s impossible to know in advance whether the person you’re approaching is attracted to you or will be upset by your attention. What one woman considers unwanted attention, another may welcome. Some women dislike being catcalled and see it as as harassment, while others find it flattering. Generally, young women are not interested in dating old men and don't like being approached by them, but there are enough exceptions to make it worthwhile for old men to approach young women.
I agree, in part. However, I have slight reservations about that - I think sex negativity makes people sexually repressed, so there should also be teaching about how to say "yes". Saying "no" because of shame about sex is a legitimate problem to try to overcome. I don't think the problems can be reduced to people who won't take "no" as an answer, I think there's also a lot of neurosis about sex that America in particular hasn't dealt with. They've transplanted Puritan ideas into feminist language, meaning many have never really become comfortable with sex or the human body even as they've become more secular. A good example of this is the liberal attitude towards sex: it's liberalized on the basis that sex is unimportant and a private matter, rather than on the basis that it's a positive good.The most sensible approach is probably to teach children of both sexes from a young age that unwanted attention is, to some extent, inevitable—and that they should feel empowered to say 'no' and move on, rather than becoming upset or afraid.
