The term Friend

[Outis]

Male homosexuality was illegal in Britain until the Sexual Offenses Act of 1967. Because even mentioning someone was a homosexual was so offensive at the time in England, people who were thought to be gay were referred to as “sporty” with girls and “artistic” for boys.

Thanks for the info; it's interesting that "gay" seems to have become synonymous with homosexuality in the 1950s through a conflation with promiscuity. And, perhaps, immorality in general.

The legal position in Britain was more restrictive than you make out. Homosexual acts between men were, indeed, made legal in England in 1967, but only in private residences between males over 21. Public displays of affection between men were still classed as "acts of gross indecency" and men continued to be prosecuted for kissing in public. In Scotland it remained an offence, even in private (theoretically punishable by life imprisonment), until 1980 and in Northern Ireland until 1982. It wasn't until Y2K that the age of concent for gay boys was brought into line with straight kids at 16.

Fun anecdote: I have an uncle who, in the late '80s at the age of 14, told a boy he fancied at school that he wanted to kiss him. The boy reported the incident to a teacher, who called the police. My uncle was arrested and given a Police Caution for "Incitement to commit an act of gross indecency." No doubt today, had this offence still existed, he would have been placed on the Sex Offenders Register for five years as well.

Were bisexual boys said to be "on the artistic spectrum," I wonder ...

WOW, that is crazy. Not surprising but still crazy. And I don't think we've really moved on that far, we've just passed the ball to another group to be shocked by for not being good, decent, married ladies and gentlemen.

[Addicted2boys]

Friend might actually be better then MAP. Too many people see the attraction as just sexual. They see pedophiles using the term as just an attempt by us to make paedophilia more acceptable in society.

[Outis]

If sticking to MAP, and I think we will, what I do think is that the meaning of the word MAP needs work to make it a workable term for the general public.

What I mean is that the word pedophile originally broke down to pedo- (from Greek pais (genitive paidos) "child") and Greek philos "loving" (see -phile). Sexuality was viewed differently in that society. An adult who loves children is a more open idea than an adult who wants sex with children. Love and sex are different things although they of course often have connections.

But the term has been twisted to mean adults who want to sexually exploit kids which isn't what it means at all but it's now so fixed in the minds of the public that the tern is just too toxic today.

MAP as I've said before to me focuses on attraction so isn't as accurate as pedophile but given that it's a term that is now quite widely used then it's a reasonable starting point for conversations. So I think the term MAP needs to be expressed more like the term pedophile, with a focus on love and connection. I have a low sex drive, I used to have a high sex drive so while I might have had a more sexual interest in the past, today a child still turns my head and draws me in but I tend to not have a sexual interest. But the feelings I have inside now are the same as I used to have and are still the same as what I can have towards an adult woman I'm attracted to or love in a romantic way.

So that's all a long winded way of saying I think MAP should mean an adult with a romantic or loving or physical interest in a young person. A MAP is someone who is inclind to feel towards a child the same way as a non-MAP would feel towards someone special or attractive in their own sexuality. Yes there can be a sexual attraction but not always and when there is it's the same effect as a non-map, so far different to feelings of wanting to harm or rape a person.

[PorcelainLark]

It's worth noting that being an aromantic MAP doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about the well being of children. Also, I'd hesitate to use the term "friend" because not every MAP is necessarily interested in friendship with children.

[Fragment]

It's worth noting that being an aromantic MAP doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about the well being of children.

Yeah, having a sexual orientation towards minors doesn't mean that romantic, emotional and sexual components will be found in equal measure in each person. Some adult-attracted (especially) men only care about sexual relationships and don't want to build romantic or emotional bonds. Other people can be romantic, but have limited to no interest in sex. Neither extreme invalidates their sexual orientation towards men or women as the case may be.

While I personally think that having an emotional bond is better and something I desire, I don't agree with idealizing minor-attraction to where it seems like a somehow more "pure" love than adult-attraction. I think our point should be that it's not inherently more or less romantic or sexual. It's falls on the exact same spectrum as adult attraction- including the fact that some MAPs can be abusive.

That doesn't mean that activists should focus on the sex act or on potential abuse, of course. But trying to make a sexual love for children seem somehow special just comes across as deluded. Especially to parents to whom parental love is seen as carrying a special bond.

I don't think the fact that "minor-attracted person" focuses on "attraction" is particularly negative. Especially since most people don't think of the meaning when they pronounce the word "map". MAP has become its own word and we can build an image around it. Hopefully a positive, constructive image, but without going too far into idealist fantasy.

[Outis]

I agree that it should be presented as something more pure when it's an attraction with children but equally I don't think the focus should be one form of attraction that one section of map society feels.

I'm not exclusive which in many ways makes being a map easier but it also means I immediately recognise that what I feel towards a young person in terms of attraction is the same as what I feel towards an adult.

Sometimes I will see an adult woman and experience a physical attraction response towards her and I can have the same physical attraction towards someone young. I won't say anything about it or show it, but I will feel it. Most women and young females I have no such reaction to, they are just people I encounter, may be friends with.

I have had long term relationships with adult women which have usually been when I've met a woman, over time I've got to know her and that's developed into a romantic interest and with that, a physical interest. Those relationships for me have been the most special and memorable and impactful on my life. I've had the same reaction with young girls though. There have been a few girls I've just got to know of a long time, eventually developing a romantic interest and with that a physical attraction. I've not followed through in a romantic or physical way, but I recognise those feelings and that they are the same as what I've experienced with adult women.

I consider myself to be heterosexual which to me means I can develop a romantic or physical interest in the opposite sex. For me it might be an adult woman or a child. As a ratio it is much more likely to happen towards a young girl which is why I also recognise that I am primarly a map. For me, having heterosexuality focus only on the physical reaction isn't accurate because I've had relationships with women where sex wasn't something we had but we were mutually attracted and in love. I just think if the focus is all about sexual attraction then it makes it less than what adults feel for each other and only serves maps with a primarily sexual interest. I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting love or commtment and being driven by a primarily sexual interest. When I was a kid I was highly sexual and had experiences that were just about pleasure and I didn't want more than that, it's a two way thing and sometimes sex is enough and fits the needs of two people perfectly. That's just not me though as an adult.

[Fragment]

I don't think the focus should be one form of attraction that one section of map society feels.

I think there may be a miscommunication because I think we're all on agreement with this?

MAPs with primarily sexual feelings are minor-attracted.
MAPs with primarily romantic feelings are minor-attracted.
MAPs with primarily nurturing/ emotional feelings are minor-attracted.

The sexual part is what gets more noticed by society and it's what causes the harshest legal penalties. But MAPs have a broader array of feelings than that, just as adult-attracted people do.

There's actually a research paper that was released recently (but I can't access) that deals with this:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39118553/

[Non Name]

I don't think the focus should be one form of attraction that one section of map society feels.

I think there may be a miscommunication because I think we're all on agreement with this?

MAPs with primarily sexual feelings are minor-attracted.
MAPs with primarily romantic feelings are minor-attracted.
MAPs with primarily nurturing/ emotional feelings are minor-attracted.

The sexual part is what gets more noticed by society and it's what causes the harshest legal penalties. But MAPs have a broader array of feelings than that, just as adult-attracted people do.

There's actually a research paper that was released recently (but I can't access) that deals with this:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39118553/

I've uploaded the pdf to the MAP Torrent Building matrix room we're both members of.

[Outis]

I don't think the focus should be one form of attraction that one section of map society feels.

I think there may be a miscommunication because I think we're all on agreement with this?

MAPs with primarily sexual feelings are minor-attracted.
MAPs with primarily romantic feelings are minor-attracted.
MAPs with primarily nurturing/ emotional feelings are minor-attracted.

The sexual part is what gets more noticed by society and it's what causes the harshest legal penalties. But MAPs have a broader array of feelings than that, just as adult-attracted people do.

There's actually a research paper that was released recently (but I can't access) that deals with this:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39118553/

Yes, I think we are saying the same thing.

[Fragment]

I've uploaded the pdf to the MAP Torrent Building matrix room we're both members of.

My home server on both accounts I was using is down. I'll have to find a way back in.