Maybe we should ban porn

[Fragment]

Not PIM, but adult porn.

I was reading about this case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Winn ... l_killings

The perpetrator Jeremy Skibicki murdered, raped and then dismembered 4 women. I also read the police interview. He admitted to watching porn.

Clearly porn is a slippery slope that leads to violent assaults on women. It's a way for straight teleio men to live out their sick fantasies. But what about when porn isn't enough?

We should think of these poor women, murdered in cold blood. And put everyone that watches porn on a registry. It's the only way to keep the community safe.

[Harlan]

He admitted to watching porn.

He also watched TV and surfed the internet.
They should be banned too. Sarcasm.

Clearly porn is a slippery slope that leads to violent assaults on women.

Parents should also be banned from bathing their children and soaping their genitals. This is a slippery slope that leads to molistation. Sarcasm again.

[Outis]

I think it's not a terrrible idea.

The argument that CP is terrible because every time it's viewed it's the abuse being repeated I would say applies equally to adults. It's often said that many people perform in porn out of pressure or a need for the money and that many people later regret being in porn.

In that case, porn should be banned for the same reason unless we're saying repeated rape and abuse of women is somehow acceptable?

It forces society to face the important question of whether that argument is true or not.
If it's true for young people then it's true for old people and should be banned. If it isn't true for old people then it isn't true for young people.

I personally wouldn't mind it being blanket banned, it could have a net positive on society. If it wasn't banned then I'd want that agument challenging that an adult isn't repeat abused but a young person is.

[Harlan]

It's often said that many people perform in porn out of pressure or a need for the money and that many people later regret being in porn.
...
I personally wouldn't mind it being blanket banned, it could have a net positive on society. If it wasn't banned then I'd want that agument challenging that an adult isn't repeat abused but a young person is.

Pornography reduces rape cases. Thanks to porn, sex is no longer something "sacred". This reduces erotic hunger and makes it easier to relate to sex.

Radical feminists who demand that porn sites be shut down don't understand that this will dramatically increase the number of sexual assaults. Or maybe that's exactly what they want, to incite hatred towards men and further tightening of laws.

[Artaxerxes II]

I should also note that, given the production method of paying people to have sex on camera being no different than a person being filmed having sex with a prostitute, it can be argued that under US law (and those of other prohibitionists countries) that the domestic production of non-amateur porn (think BLACKED, TUSHY, and the like) is prostitution, thus a prosecutable crime.

Maybe it's a stretch, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I've yet to see anyone argue with this line of thinking in any American court case pertaining to porn.

[Swoll]

I guess I'll admit they can be disturbing stuff on porn sites

[Outis]

I still like the idea of maps campaigning to ban porn. I mean that's a moral head job for non maps.
Maps, those sex obsessed predators, pushing to ban porn because porn is exploitative and immoral. Maps taking a moral high ground and non-maps trying to retake the moral ground while campaigning to support exploitative porn.

[Lennon72]

Well, would most certainly get some NON-MAPS to start thinking, wouldn't it?

[PorcelainLark]

Isn't Fragment's point a reductio ad absurdum of the argument that viewing CSAM has to be banned because it causes people to abuse children, rather than sincerely intending to support the ban of pornography?
I read it as pushing people to reconsider that justification for banning CSAM. Logically, you would say Skibicki isn't enough to justify a ban on regular pornography, so even if you found CSAM among the possessions of a child abuser it wouldn't justify the claim that CSAM should be banned.

It's pointing out an example of the following fallacy:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin: 'after this, therefore because of this') is an informal fallacy which one commits when one reasons, "Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X." It is a fallacy in which an event is presumed to have been caused by a closely preceding event merely on the grounds of temporal succession. This type of reasoning is fallacious because mere temporal succession does not establish a causal connection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

Of course, you could still say CSAM is bad for different reasons but it's good to challenge one of the most common arguments.

[Outis]

As a thought experiment I wondered what a world would be like if porn had never been created. People still met and had relationships, married, even had sex for fun, but the idea of recording it was totally alien. How would the world, society and individuals be different?

Would people be more frustrated and go around raping people? Would people be calmer and sex focused on reproduction and if so, would population rates increase or fall? I can't predict the impacts but it's an interesting thought experiment.

But I think the world would likely be better because sex would be more mysterious and exciting and special when it happens.

Now when it comes to young people, a big part of the attraction for me is that they are pure, less corrupted by society, more honest, smarter in some ways, more fun and adventurous. They embody all the best qualities of people and myself. Fun, adventure, gaming and with a beautiful softness and alure that is lost to most adults. Porn degrades that because it puts children in the world of adults and takes away from the purity and sense of fun and adventure.

I think if we tried to make the adult world more like the childs world we would be building something better and it would force adults to really think about what they are defending.

If we pushed to ban porn because it's degrading and abusive and corrupts children as well as adults then it would be a positive thing. No child wants to see their mom in a porn video, no mom wants to feel they have to perform in a porn video to pay for their family to survive. How does someone defend the porn industry? They say some people are forced into porn and are degraded by it but some do it for pleasure and fun, and the rights of those doing it for fun is sufficient to tolerate accepting people are sometimes forced into it and degraded. But then the same argument is used against CP, that some will do it for fun but some are abused and degraded by it and it's immoral to tolerate that even if some do get pleasure from it.

I think there's a strong case for saying the moral argument has to be applied equally for all people and it's easiest argument is that there should be no tolerance for abuse or coercion and that can only be ensured by banning porn completely. The same argument used for banning cp is used to ban porn generally.

I see three possible outcomes of this reasoning.

1. People openly accept that they are fine with abuse of women but not children and so nothing changes other than it being explicitly accepted that society has made that decision. It will accept the risk of abuse and the degredation of women for fun, it's something society has no issue with.

2. People accept that it can't tolerate that risk and bans porn completely with much resistence I'm sure. It may be impossible to force on people but if it was possible we might end up with a better world where generations are born into a world without porn.

3. People conclude that porn isn't abusive by its nature and is something else, such as an art or something intrinc to human nature and that then erodes the argument against cp.

If nothing else it forces people to look at themselves when they say cp is bad and abusive but porn with women isn't. It challenges people to reflect on this important point, and reflection is always good.


Besides, it wouldn't hurt haven't the moral high ground and seeing stereotypes challenged when maps campaign to ban porn and protect the rights of women and children.