Not "fitting in", even in online MAP spaces

[WandersGlade]

My personality doesn't seem to fit, like I'm at odds with everyone even though I don't try to be.

[Fragment]

I really like your contributions and I'm glad you joined Mu as an "early access" member. I really hope the kinds of discussions we've been having so far can help set the atmosphere for what this place will become.

[BLueRibbon]

Why do you feel like you're at odds with everyone? You don't give that impression here.

[WandersGlade]

I really like your contributions and I'm glad you joined Mu as an "early access" member. I really hope the kinds of discussions we've been having so far can help set the atmosphere for what this place will become.

That's kind of you to say.

Why do you feel like you're at odds with everyone? You don't give that impression here.

I haven't gotten into a serious argument here yet (although I came close to it in the Biden thread). I've had some relatively heated interactions/arguments over the course of the last month, both with anti and pro contact people, quite often on stuff only tangentially related to MAP issues.
I think the clearest example was the thread on AtF I made asking why we shouldn't be allowed to ignore moderators. I think I got a nearly universal negative response to that. Or leading up to that, my argument in the contact debate thread about whether sex positivity requires a person to reject the separation of sexual trauma/abuse from other forms of trauma/abuse. And before that, arguing that from a practical perspective it doesn't matter whether lolicons/shotacons really are MAPs, since from an outside perspective that's how they will be perceived whether they like or not, so if they want to protect their hentai they should have solidarity with those who identify as MAPs. On VoA my comparison of anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers to people who won't accept that being a MAP isn't a choice (i.e. neither group wants to listen to science or be told what to do), and got an aggressive response from one particular user.
I've been way too aggressive in the past, I think, but even when I try to moderate my position and not be provoked I feel the conflict is often very deep. For example on the b4um, my dispute over the Radbruch formula, or on VoA, my thread about whether consent was cognitive.
I seem to be magnetically drawn towards conflict, even though I don't enjoy it.

[BLueRibbon]

You are pushing people to think in ways that are unfamiliar and uncomfortable to them, and they don't like it. I also do this a lot, and it is necessary if you're going to be successful as an MAP activist.

If you continue to do this, you will continue to receive many hateful responses. Look at how my posts on BC are received. You have to learn not to care.

[Fragment]

I've been way too aggressive in the past, I think, but even when I try to moderate my position and not be provoked I feel the conflict is often very deep. For example on the b4um, my dispute over the Radbruch formula.

Just snipping this part because it's the only topic I've read, but I felt that you were having a good discussion where you were raising challenges and they were being met and the participants and observers of the topic alike were able to learn and refine their thinking. I didn't see that topic as confrontational or aggressive at all.

I think you're probably just in a mental space where it's easy to second guess yourself. I get that. But please don't leave. We'll be officially opening soon and we need people like you to set the tone.

[WandersGlade]

You are pushing people to think in ways that are unfamiliar and uncomfortable to them, and they don't like it. I also do this a lot, and it is necessary if you're going to be successful as an MAP activist.

If you continue to do this, you will continue to receive many hateful responses. Look at how my posts on BC are received. You have to learn not to care.

I'll try to make it clearer in my head whether I'm talking to someone to make friends, or to change their mind. Probably a lot of this problem is not being clear if I'm in a space for social support or to change minds, as it isn't realistic to expect both in the same context.

Just snipping this part because it's the only topic I've read, but I felt that you were having a good discussion where you were raising challenges and they were being met and the participants and observers of the topic alike were able to learn and refine their thinking. I didn't see that topic as confrontational or aggressive at all.

I think you're probably just in a mental space where it's easy to second guess yourself. I get that. But please don't leave. We'll be officially opening soon and we need people like you to set the tone.

I'm aware that thread has gone smoothly so far, however I very nearly slipped into being really passive aggressive. I could feel myself on the edge of getting angry.
I won't leave, don't worry.

[Fragment]

I'll try to make it clearer in my head whether I'm talking to someone to make friends, or to change their mind. Probably a lot of this problem is not being clear if I'm in a space for social support or to change minds, as it isn't realistic to expect both in the same context.

Remember also that the best way to change minds isn't to argue strongly for your point, but to leave the other person with questions that makes them doubt their own opinion. Often humility can go a lot further than strength, even in a debate.

[uwuux]

My personality doesn't seem to fit, like I'm at odds with everyone. I don't try to be. I feel like I should step away, not out of fear but because I don't feel "at home", however.

You are a strong personality with strong opinions, maybe even a little bit arrogant, so I believe that this is a normal outcome. Fundamentally, I have the same issue as you, I'm at odds with almost everyone. However, I think it's important to realize that many of those online arguments are a waste of time; don't take them too seriously and when things get heated, it's better to just walk away and drop that discussion, which takes strength and discipline. I've done that many times on VoA, and I still like and even love most members there; I accept them for who they are even though we don't have much in common. When confronted, it's almost impossible to change someones mind. And in the end, we're just animals on the same level, even though we believe that we are right and they are wrong. My personal biggest pet peeve is not even MAP related, but rather that most MAPs seem to be leftists(?). I myself am very, very pro capitalism. The (stupid) stuff we argue about...

Regarding that feeling of never being at home, this is a tricky situation, and there's probably not a straight forward answer. Strangely enough, people nowadays feel more "like themselves" online than in real life, even though they also feel lonelier online. Especially young people, especially men. This might seem like a paradox, but maybe close, intimate connection is not about the intellectual mind, but about the primitive heart. The mind struggles to connect with others, ultimately leading to more doubts and to more fears. In other words, this is a personality trait, with its own set of positives and negatives, and it's inherently not a "problem" where there is a "solution" for.

While that longing for a home - for your people - is still strong, I think we have no other choice than to keep wandering, to keep an eye out and to settle for good enough, or close enough, and not chase this childish concept of "happiness" with that utopian implication of being able to experience peek euphoria, forever. In the end, compromises must be made, and you have to accept people for who they are. Because they have to do the same for you.

[Jim Burton]

There is a common misunderstanding among conservatives that MAP rights is an identity movement following on from cultural leftism on Tumblr, etc in the 2010s.

What I believe has happened, is that certain leftist MAPs have run with that idea themselves.

We are in fact a latent mass movement, and always have been.