Short Sentences - Thoughts?

[Bookshelf]

One of the most common complaints you'll find from the general public is that MAP-related sentences are unusually lenient, which isn't entirely untrue, although subject to location. Some countries/states/provinces are certainly more severe than others. Regardless, in a lot of places, you'll see lenient sentences for contact offenses with teens and children, which is in contrast to society's demand for harsh punishments.

What are your thoughts on why this is?

[CantChainTheSpirit]

I can only talk about what I was told by someone who was a prison officer then went on to become a consultant to probation officers and the police.

In her view, most pedophiles in prison have no business being there, it was the wrong place for them and it created dangerous situations for prison guards and other inmates. Prisons have dangerous people in them, then you have some average guy who's there because he watched cp or dated someone underage, there's nothing for them to learn from prison, it just makes them targets.

The problem is she said is that most people in policing, the courts or even social services have studied or understand the subject or pedophilia. In her view, most pedophiles are ordinary men and women with an attraction. Some might be drawn into cp for many reasons from loneliness to frustration. Single men of all sexualities often turn to porn out of loneliness or frustration, the difference is that for pedophiles their porn is illegal, but the fact that they look for it is no different to others looking for porn that interests them. Then there are those who get into relationships that are illegal, but they're hardly dangerous criminals.

Prisons are for serious criminals to get rehabilitated but for pedophiles, it isn't going to fix them any more than sending a gay person to prison is going to fix them. It might make them not offend again through fear, but often it doesn't. It would be better to just help them to deal with their situation, learn to cope with loneliness and forms relationships such as friendships that compensate, and find ways to deal with porn addiction.

I think she was right, there are much better ways to deal with such offenses.

[BLueRibbon]

The outing, sex offender registration, and various prohibitions can be more damaging than the prison sentence. Argue this.

[OnionPetal]

One of the most common complaints you'll find from the general public is that MAP-related sentences are unusually lenient, which isn't entirely untrue, although subject to location. [...]

This is a ridiculous 'complaint.' What are these people smoking? Kissing a willing minor below the belt has led to longer sentences than murder for some MAPs. Non-violent image-related convictions have resulted in hundreds of years long sentences. What credible data anywhere indicates that MAPs get shorter average sentences than violent criminals?? No such evidence exists. The mere notion that MAPs are treated 'leniently' by the justice system is laughably absurd.

In her view, most pedophiles in prison have no business being there, it was the wrong place for them and it created dangerous situations for prison guards and other inmates. Prisons have dangerous people in them, then you have some average guy who's there because he watched cp or dated someone underage, there's nothing for them to learn from prison, it just makes them targets.

Quite right. Prisons are for the most violent, dangerous criminals.

The outing, sex offender registration, and various prohibitions can be more damaging than the prison sentence. Argue this.

Indeed, no other class of 'criminal' gets put on a 'registry' that follows them around after they've served their sentence. Not even murderers.

[aeterna91]

I would say this applies to all types of crime (where “crime” is understood to mean anything that violates current moral standards—of course, this includes both behaviors that harm others and harmless behaviors that people still consider criminal). It’s not just limited to MAPs. If you read news stories about robberies, sexual assaults on adults, animal abuse, or drug trafficking, you always find a huge number of people complaining that the sentences are too short and demanding, in short, harsher punishments. Always, harsher punishments. The details may vary depending on the political spectrum, of course; for example, on the left, people don’t usually demand harsher punishments for pickpockets or small-scale drug dealers, but they will demand harsher punishments for anyone guilty of something that could be seen as any kind of sexual assault or abuse. There is an overwhelming tendency to demand harsher punishments.

I think it comes down, above all, to two reasons:

-1. Sadistic tendencies. Plain and simple. It’s likely an evolutionary trait (since a certain degree of aggression undoubtedly has evolutionary advantages), but it seems that, to varying degrees, we all have these sadistic tendencies. As humanity, in general, we have a part of us that wants to hurt others... but, at the same time, we want to feel like good people... the way to resolve that tension is to want to hurt only the “bad guys,” which, by default, should make us the “good guys.”
-2. The belief that punishing the wicked will effectively prevent bad things from happening. There is a very clear good intention there: a desire for there to be no murders, no rapes, for no bad things to happen in the world... a belief that, if criminals are punished, there will be no crimes. There is some truth to this, but it is often greatly exaggerated and misinterpreted. Because many people don’t realize it, but it can be demonstrated that, on a psychological level, punishment isn’t even the best way to guide people’s behavior. And it can be demonstrated that the countries that punish criminals the most aren’t necessarily the most effective at preventing crimes… in fact, it often seems the opposite is true. In many American countries, sentences are much harsher than in European ones, and yet there is much more crime. But as long as people don’t realize this, they will continue to demand harsher punishments.

So why aren’t there harsher punishments? Actually, if you stop to listen to people, it’s surprising that we’ve come to live in countries where, for years, there haven’t been public executions or overt torture of prisoners in broad daylight—because many people would love to see that happen. We’ve been lucky enough to live in a society that’s much less cruel than it could be... and how did this come to be?

I think people in positions of power have been surprisingly responsible and surprisingly uncruel. And perhaps this is because being in a position of power forces you to reflect and investigate more on what the best way to do things is... And I think that, to a certain extent, people who stop to reflect on it and look at the data end up realizing that harsh punishments aren’t the most effective way to prevent crime, and that a society that punishes criminals too harshly ends up destroying itself. To survive, societies need, at the very least, a certain degree of compassion.

But on the other hand, as long as people keep calling for harsher punishments, any unscrupulous politician knows that promising harsher punishments will win them support among a large segment of the electorate... so we’re back to a cycle that seems endless. And we see a constant tension between movements advocating for harsher punishments and those advocating for greater compassion.

That said, as far as MAP issues are concerned... yes, of course, I believe we’ve reached a point where sentences are ridiculously excessive. The mere fact that a person can be sentenced to years in prison for a consensual relationship or for viewing pornography (even cartoons!) is an enormous cruelty. And yet, there are many people for whom that cruelty falls short, because they fantasize about punishments that are even much harsher. So we have the misfortune of living in a very cruel system and the good fortune that we could be living in one that is even much worse.

[Rakuraku]

I think the criminal penalties are too harsh and also unproductive. People like that generally need rehabilitation programs and not being stuck in a cage. It also means when someone who is a secret pedo hurts someone it's hard to hold them accountable. People resist sending people to prison that they love or who it feels unjust to. When I was a younger person I had an adult hurt me and it would have saved us a lot of time if that adult could have just gone to a rehabilitation program and I gotten therapy

[Theendoftheline]

I can only talk about what I was told by someone who was a prison officer then went on to become a consultant to probation officers and the police.

In her view, most pedophiles in prison have no business being there, it was the wrong place for them and it created dangerous situations for prison guards and other inmates. Prisons have dangerous people in them, then you have some average guy who's there because he watched cp or dated someone underage, there's nothing for them to learn from prison, it just makes them targets.

The problem is she said is that most people in policing, the courts or even social services have studied or understand the subject or pedophilia. In her view, most pedophiles are ordinary men and women with an attraction. Some might be drawn into cp for many reasons from loneliness to frustration. Single men of all sexualities often turn to porn out of loneliness or frustration, the difference is that for pedophiles their porn is illegal, but the fact that they look for it is no different to others looking for porn that interests them. Then there are those who get into relationships that are illegal, but they're hardly dangerous criminals.

Prisons are for serious criminals to get rehabilitated but for pedophiles, it isn't going to fix them any more than sending a gay person to prison is going to fix them. It might make them not offend again through fear, but often it doesn't. It would be better to just help them to deal with their situation, learn to cope with loneliness and forms relationships such as friendships that compensate, and find ways to deal with porn addiction.

I think she was right, there are much better ways to deal with such offenses.

True but overall pedos are fuckin HATED by society. Most of the general public Everytime a pedo gets caught with CP or God forbid dating a 16 yo they bleat "WOOD CHIPPER" like a buncha heartless bastards. And a huge portion of the general public truly would be overjoyed if that actually happened.

[bnkywuv]

In Idaho, it's the death penalty via firing squads. i don't think that counts as a lenient sentence...

[CantChainTheSpirit]

True but overall pedos are fuckin HATED by society. Most of the general public Everytime a pedo gets caught with CP or God forbid dating a 16 yo they bleat "WOOD CHIPPER" like a buncha heartless bastards. And a huge portion of the general public truly would be overjoyed if that actually happened.

I think we have to be very careful to distinguish between loud mouthed idiots who are online desperately seeking validation and their 30 seconds of fame, to the majority of normal people who have their sh*t together.

In my experience, most people are not militant anti's. I base that off the fact that I've had many discussions over the years with people in person and online who don't react that way, in fact most don't react that way.

It depends on the message and approach taken.

If I go on a general forum or social media platform and post "I'm a pedophile and I want the right to have sex with kids!" then I'll be met with a mix of silence and some people shouting how terrible that is. Not an ocean of anti's, most just switch off while some will be unable to and will just go into attack mode, but even then it's really not a lot of people compared to how many views that statement gets. It might get thousands of views and a dozen or a few dozen people unhappy with the post, but still a minority who care enough to respond.

If I post "maps are normal people, not abusers, we just want to live our lives with respect, playing our part to build a better society for everyone" then it'll still get mostly silence, just a few militant anti's attacking and at least as many people defending me. Yes, I've done this and I've found I've had at least as many people defending my right to speak, often many more people with those anti's pushed into a minority. That's because most people don't care enough to comment so mostly silence and people tend to react in defense of someone being attacked, so my message which is far less directly controversial pushed me into the category of the underdog to defend.

In person it's push the same, I usually find people mostly want to change the subject because they don't care enough either way and would rather avoid a debate on a subject of little interest to them while some will be willing to engage in constructive debate and it's a small minority who take a strong anti-line, and often people turn on them because they don't want a conflict because of one persons loud mouth and awful personality.

I do think most people are reachable and are not anti's, we just don't reach out to them. When it comes to activism, I think Jesus quoted it best.
"The Harvest Is Plentiful, the Laborers Few"