Reddit: Why is it so hard to discuss pedophilia without feeling like people just start assuming you’re one?

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https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuesti ... a_without/

This topic was shared over at VoA. Thought it was worth linking here, too.

The comments are mostly reasonable.

It's a sick world when people "attracted to children" are considered more shameful and evil than people "that want to feed other humans through a wood chipper".

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I work in social services, specifically in support for people with developmental disabilities so I have a bit of a different perspective on the issue than most just because of the kinds of people I've worked with. I have had many clients who are pedophiles. Zero child molesters, but definitely some who have crossed some lines that have made people uncomfortable.

I think it's a good idea to realize there are no thought crimes. Being a rapist is a crime. Having inappropriate thoughts isn't.

[...]

That said, I've only known a few people with that kind of history, and they're typically supremely mentally ill as well. Often in ways you'd never expect. I worked with a man who if you met him briefly you'd never think he's disabled. But he wouldn't use the toilet. He'd shit his pants, smear it all over himself. Needed a lot of encouragement to shower or change clothes after. Why? He got raped as a kid, a lot. Figured out smearing himself with his own shit made him undesirable to his rapist. 40 years later he's still doing it because it makes him feel safe. He isn't allowed around kids as he's inappropriate with them. What he needs is probably some kind of therapy to address all that, but as far as I know that's not an offer anyone's made him. I'm sure someone more qualified than me would have been able to help him figure out where those urges are coming from and get past it. But that's above my pay grade.

If you thought Cantor's "pedophiles have lower IQ" was bad, now with a sample size in the single digits from social services "pedophiles smear shit all over themselves".

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This is a theory I've got from reading posts on Reddit, so you can decide for yourself whether the evidence base is generalisable.

The media realised in the 1990s that paedophilia sells newspapers. After the '80s "satanic panic" had passed, the media needed a new bogey-man to scare people into reading their articles. Paedophilia, unfortunately, has the combination of sex, violence, concealment and, sadly, prevalence, to make it great click-bait. You can get stories about famous people, movie directors, rock stars, clergymen and each one is shocking enough to generate lots of views on your media article.

As a result of this huge media focus, the public, in the English-speaking world at least, became hugely paranoid about the danger of paedophiles throughout the '90s and 2000s, to the point that rather than taking sensible precautions to look after their kids, they became terrified of an abstract idea of the hidden child-molestor around every corner. Every decision relating to children became coloured by the consideration that anybody might be a paedophile.

This plays out especially strongly in the US where there is already a strange attitude to sex, that it is dirty and harmful and sinful. So not only are victims of child abuse people who have been abused, usually by family members, but to the American mindset, they have been marked with sin, and in some way made "not innocent", therefore making the danger of paedophiles even greater since they not only affect your body but your "soul" or "morality".

We now have generations of kids who grew up in this environment. Who have been raised in the belief that paedophiles are everywhere, waiting to attack any child, even complete strangers playing in the park. They are like "terrorists" but even worse because at least all terrorists have beards so they're easy to spot. Being raised in this environment, brings them to a really difficult spot when they hit adolescence. They know that paedophiles are the most dangerous things in the world, since they destroy your soul, but then, as teenagers, they also go "oh shit, I'm attracted to teenagers!". After years of being told that a paedophile is someone who is attracted to people under the state-mandated age of consent, and that such people are evil, they are confronted with being attracted to people their own age - under the state-mandated age of consent! Along with the usual self-consciousness of being a teenager and the feeling that everyone's watching you, they become incredibly performative about how much they hate paedophiles in order to prove that they definitely aren't one.

In typical teenage fashion, this pattern involves trying to divert attention onto others, in the way of someone trying to escape a bear and hoping their fellow hikers get eaten instead. There's a lot of looking for any signs that can be used to go "Look! That person's a paedophile! Not me! Them!".

So, my theory is that that's why today's young people are quick to pounce on any reason to accuse others of being a paedophile. It's a reaction to years of being terrified of being accused of being one and therefore trying to point the finger at anyone else in the hope that the target gets eaten by the bear of public opinion.

This post does a wonderful job of explaining the performative anger people display towards MAPs. I'd give them a gold star or whatever but I don't have a reddit account.

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An otherwise fairly good post also includes this nugget:

The attraction toward young is an issue mostly of power and dominance rather than actual sexual attraction. Thus most pedophiles being themselves insecure losers although possible to be hidden behind a role of confidence (think incel). The attraction is mostly one of power over the victim, a power fantasy of subjugation and being in charge, less/no objection from the oposite.

So inaccurate, at least as far as my attraction goes. And likely many other BLs. If we're so interested in asserting power and dominance, then why is the top fantasy for many BLs giving pleasure (either manual or oral stimulation) to a boy rather than receiving pleasure?

That isn't to deny the existence of MAPs with a power fantasy, but the traditional rape dynamic seems to be more characteristic of situational offenders than preferential offenders (and non-offenders).

[ZeroXJoker]

An otherwise fairly good post also includes this nugget:

The attraction toward young is an issue mostly of power and dominance rather than actual sexual attraction. Thus most pedophiles being themselves insecure losers although possible to be hidden behind a role of confidence (think incel). The attraction is mostly one of power over the victim, a power fantasy of subjugation and being in charge, less/no objection from the oposite.

So inaccurate, at least as far as my attraction goes. And likely many other BLs. If we're so interested in asserting power and dominance, then why is the top fantasy for many BLs giving pleasure (either manual or oral stimulation) to a boy rather than receiving pleasure?

That isn't to deny the existence of MAPs with a power fantasy, but the traditional rape dynamic seems to be more characteristic of situational offenders than preferential offenders (and non-offenders).

I wouldn't say my attractions are about power and dominance either. For me I want to get and give pleasure in my fantasies.

[Artaxerxes II]

An otherwise fairly good post also includes this nugget:

The attraction toward young is an issue mostly of power and dominance rather than actual sexual attraction. Thus most pedophiles being themselves insecure losers although possible to be hidden behind a role of confidence (think incel). The attraction is mostly one of power over the victim, a power fantasy of subjugation and being in charge, less/no objection from the oposite.

So inaccurate, at least as far as my attraction goes. And likely many other BLs. If we're so interested in asserting power and dominance, then why is the top fantasy for many BLs giving pleasure (either manual or oral stimulation) to a boy rather than receiving pleasure?

That isn't to deny the existence of MAPs with a power fantasy, but the traditional rape dynamic seems to be more characteristic of situational offenders than preferential offenders (and non-offenders).

Well, self-reports and surveys won't change their minds, and neither you or any MAP telling them how altruistic you are to your YFs. My strategy is often developing from one of the three ledes:

1) The talking point about power fantasy being nothing more than unsubstantiated and overtly simplistic psychoanalysis, on the top of being just an ad hominem when used in actual debates and arguments
2) Non-egalitarianism in personal relationships isn't necessarily a bad thing
3) If the submissive partner actually wants to, or enjoys not being an equal or superior to their partner, the talking point falls apart.

Essentially, rather than dealing with the emotional implications, I suggest to shove the emotional baggage out of the way and ask for evidence rather than engaging with what is clearly a bigoted statement, or just call it out as bigoted in the first place, especially in more left-leaning spaces. If your opponent is right-wing, then calling it "woke BS" and relating it to the way certain radfems like McKinnon demonise heterosexuality as an expression of male power and dominance is a good strategy too.

[Artaxerxes II]

But yes, for me as a MAP it's not about power, it's about the well-being of the YF, looking out for them, and forming a deeper tie with them as well.

[FairBlueLove]

An otherwise fairly good post also includes this nugget:

The attraction toward young is an issue mostly of power and dominance rather than actual sexual attraction. Thus most pedophiles being themselves insecure losers although possible to be hidden behind a role of confidence (think incel). The attraction is mostly one of power over the victim, a power fantasy of subjugation and being in charge, less/no objection from the oposite.

So inaccurate, at least as far as my attraction goes. And likely many other BLs. If we're so interested in asserting power and dominance, then why is the top fantasy for many BLs giving pleasure (either manual or oral stimulation) to a boy rather than receiving pleasure?

I also get pleasure first and foremost by giving pleasure. This applies to relations with women (I'm not exclusive) and it would apply to relations with boys as well.
How come this BS of asserting power and dominance is perpetuated I have no idea... Oh, wait, maybe that's because they just don't directly ask us?

[FairBlueLove]

Well, self-reports and surveys won't change their minds, and neither you or any MAP telling them how altruistic you are to your YFs. My strategy is often developing from one of the three ledes:

1) The talking point about power fantasy being nothing more than unsubstantiated and overtly simplistic psychoanalysis, on the top of being just an ad hominem when used in actual debates and arguments
2) Non-egalitarianism in personal relationships isn't necessarily a bad thing
3) If the submissive partner actually wants to, or enjoys not being an equal or superior to their partner, the talking point falls apart.

Essentially, rather than dealing with the emotional implications, I suggest to shove the emotional baggage out of the way and ask for evidence rather than engaging with what is clearly a bigoted statement, or just call it out as bigoted in the first place, especially in more left-leaning spaces. If your opponent is right-wing, then calling it "woke BS" and relating it to the way certain radfems like McKinnon demonise heterosexuality as an expression of male power and dominance is a good strategy too.

I wrote my post while you were posting yours, so I didn't read it first. Well, probably you are right: self-report and surveys will not have much impact on their minds. I agree with your strategy.

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How come this BS of asserting power and dominance is perpetuated I have no idea... Oh, wait, maybe that's because they just don't directly ask us?

They asked "us", but the "us" they asked were serial molesters in prison who often had psychopathic tendencies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SYdi36D3g

Like this.