Hostility to activism seems to have gotten worse on AtF

[WandersGlade]

I was reading this thread, by jjprime, titled "I feel like Pedophiles in society are at a breaking point...".

Basically, whenever anyone comes in trying to get people motivated to change society and get involved in activism, there is a large contingent of AtF that actively tries to undermine that. More aggressively than before, it seems.

jjprime's OP.


First response. A complete lack of solidarity and dismissiveness towards MAPtivism.


A libertarian hebephile denies change is possible, and tries to dismiss actual pedophiles as insignificant.


Promotion of demoralizing/fatalistic attitudes.

What can you do about people within the MAP community that undermine activism efforts and consciousness building?

[Jim Burton]

Move them into spaces like this, but keep poking the hornets nest. These are gooning spaces, so you would expect inactivists to feel the need to stroke their own egos.

[Fragment]

This is going to sound a bit harsh, but I feel like a lot of weebs are defeatist in disposition.

As Jim says, we just need to keep poking. Every time we do, even if 80% are against us if we can get 20% to become a number, that's a move forward. The first step in achieving visibility is just self-identification and numbers. We don't need people to do anything other than say "I'm here and I want rights". There have been people going out with MAP flags at Pride. I'm so glad they did. But we don't need everyone to do that. We just need them to exist as MAPs and to want things to get better for us.

If the number self-identifying MAPs grows, the number of activists will grow. We are seeing that already. I feel like the MAP community is in the best position its been in since the 80s. Maybe even better, because this time GLs are actively involved.

I've posted a few things about the history of the gay rights movement in the last couple of days. That's not because I think our movement will follow the exact same trajectory, there are many reasons it won't, the internet least of all. I posted because I want us to remember where the gay movement started and where they are now so we can see that change IS possible.

[Jim Burton]

Also bear in mind, as MAPs become more visible, other MAPs will react to this.

They will suddenly have opinions on "the activists", if you can even draw such a line.

It doesn't speak to anything other than those changes, since our community was always helpless.

[WandersGlade]

Move them into spaces like this, but keep poking the hornets nest.

I'm worn out by it, on AtF at least. It's just me arguing with everyone else and everyone on there has already made up their mind to not take me seriously. I'm not going to argue for anything on there by myself anymore, I find it demoralizing and it probably doesn't look good from an outside perspective anyway. At least if there are two people, it doesn't come across as someone discredited who won't accept they've lost an argument.

As Jim says, we just need to keep poking. Every time we do, even if 80% are against us if we can get 20% to become a number, that's a move forward. The first step in achieving visibility is just self-identification and numbers. We don't need people to do anything other than say "I'm here and I want rights". There have been people going out with MAP flags at Pride. I'm so glad they did. But we don't need everyone to do that. We just need them to exist as MAPs and to want things to get better for us.

I suppose it isn't all doom and gloom.

Also bear in mind, as MAPs become more visible, other MAPs will react to this.

They will suddenly have opinions on "the activists", if you can even draw such a line.

It doesn't speak to anything other than those changes, since our community was always helpless.

That's positive I suppose, if their hostility is a sign they're taking MAPtivism seriously.

[Fragment]

I'm worn out by it, on AtF at least. It's just me arguing with everyone else and everyone on there has already made up their mind to not take me seriously. I'm not going to argue for anything on there by myself anymore, I find it demoralizing and it probably doesn't look good from an outside perspective anyway. At least if there are two people, it doesn't come across as someone discredited who won't accept they've lost an argument.
I don't think I have a thick enough skin for this stuff because I've always been more of a lurker when it comes to the internet. I hadn't even gotten into an argument online before this year.
Similar situation for VoA. I've managed to alienate a load of people already. I'm not cut out to be "front of house", I think.

Taking care of your own sanity is important, but please remember that there are people lurking and reading your messages that agree with you. Online debates are often not to convince your opponent, but to convince the silent audience.

[WandersGlade]

Taking care of your own sanity is important, but please remember that there are people lurking and reading your messages that agree with you. Online debates are often not to convince your opponent, but to convince the silent audience.

Fair point.

[Pegasus]

I'm on the ATF, I like it there, but I tend to filter out the bad stuff, which doesn't interest me, so I filter out the good stuff, and I don't pay attention to the nonsense that's said. Unfortunately, social networks as a whole are very toxic, if you end up paying attention to what they say, we'll get sick, we'll dwell on what they say. So just don't pay attention, just filter out what's good for you.