1/5 to 1/3 of men are hebephiles and pedophiles

[pedo233]

I notice that people believe that hebephilia (sexual preference for 11-14 year olds) and pedophilia (sexual preference for children 11 or younger) are rare. I asked someone how common is hebephilia in the male population and they said its in between homosexuality and transgenderism in terms of commonness (around 3% of men are homosexual, 0.2% are transgender). Canadian psychologist Michael Seto estimated that 1% of adult males are pedophiles, and hebephilia is slightly more common (presumably he means less than 5%).

I've looked into this and i believe a much higher percentage of men actually have a sexual preference for children 13 or younger, roughly 20% to 33%. Only 1-5% of men admit to have sexual attraction to children 13 or younger (Dawson et al 2014, Dombert et al 2016, Santtila et al 2015). However, in phallometric studies, where they measure sexual arousal from penis with a device, roughly 20-33% of men are equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults. Roughly 40-50% of child sex offenders are equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults. This suggests that these men are either hebephiles or pedophiles.

Additionally, 67% of child sex offenders are diagnosed with pedophilic disorder (Eher et al, 2019). Pedophilic disorder is defined as "defined by recurrent, intense sexual urges, fantasies, or behaviors involving prepubescent children (typically age 13 or younger)".

So most likely 1/5 to 1/3 of normal men are hebephiles and pedophiles.

[John_Doe]

I don't understand the rationale behind drawing fixed, absolute lines based on age and especially the lines that have been drawn here. When malnutrition isn't an issue the average girl has her first period at 12 (if I'm not mistaken, 60-something% of black girls in the U.S have already had their first period by 12. I think it's 30-something% for white girls. I wouldn't be surprised if statistical differences in childhood obesity explain that gap). Categorically placing men who are attracted to 13-year-old girls in the 'pedophile' category when 90% of healthy girls will have their first period before they turn 14 is absurd to me. Putting 14-year-olds in the same category as 11-year-olds is also somewhat off to me but I guess I can at least understand that if we're basing this on the average age for female puberty beginning or its most important milestone being considered delayed (the average 11-year-old girl has started puberty and menarche isn't considered delayed until 15). I'm really bad at math but, as I understand it, if the average age for menarche is 12.X (I think it might be something like 12.7 for Canada or the U.S and 12.9 for the U.K, off the top of my head. From what I've quickly searched, some stats say it's 11.9 for the U.S and 12.5 for the U.K, I'm sure others studies suggest differently) there are as many girls under that age who have had their first period as there are girls over it, an 'average' being the intermediate value when you aggregate quantities for an entire population, so what's true on average doesn't apply to most people or most of the members of a group.

I have a hard time believing that most men aren't attracted to pubescent-looking young teens. To be fair, you seem to start out defining pedophilia and hebephilia as sexual preferences for prepubescent or pubescent children as opposed to a mere attraction to them. It's really hard to draw lines between age groups though, since older teens and even 20-something-year olds can look as though they're in their early teens and young teens can look older.

I think it's a mistake to conflate an attraction to pubescent-looking young adolescents with an attraction to prepubescent children but that point might be more relevant to inferring pedophilia from an attraction to pubescent young adolescents, you seem to be doing the reverse which makes sense if we have reason to believe they're not exclusively attracted to prepubescent children but only if we're defining 'hebephilia' as an attraction to pubescent young adolescents rather than a preference for them (and with the studies that measure penile arousal, not that I wouldn't take this as common sense evidence for attraction but you can't really confirm that the arousal is due to images being shown and not internal fantasies). Not that it matters, but I think it's around 2% of men who are exclusively gay (I remember one study claiming it was 2.x%, and from what I quickly searched 2% of men responding to some surveys have self-reported exclusive homosexual attraction. It was .5% for women but I've read elsewhere that around 1.x% of them are likely to be exclusively gay).

[OnionPetal]

[...] i believe a much higher percentage of men actually have a sexual preference for children 13 or younger, roughly 20% to 33%. [...]

I don't know the particular study, but that figure seems high compared to the many other studies investigating the topic. A few notes.....

[...] roughly 20-33% of men are equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults. Roughly 40-50% of child sex offenders are equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults. This suggests that these men are either hebephiles or pedophiles.

'Equally or more aroused' does not equal preferential attraction.

It is also questionable that they decided to lump pubescent 13 year olds in with prepubescents in their categories. If they really wanted to gauge the attraction to prepubescent children, they should have categorised it clearly into pubescent and prepubescent categories.

The vast majority of research on the prevalence for exclusive/preferential attraction to prepubescents indicates a much lower prevalence. However, hebephiles and ephebephiles (teen lovers) are known to be far more common. The majority of men have at least some attraction to teens.

[pedo233]

[...] i believe a much higher percentage of men actually have a sexual preference for children 13 or younger, roughly 20% to 33%. [...]

I don't know the particular study, but that figure seems high compared to the many other studies investigating the topic. A few notes.....

[...] roughly 20-33% of men are equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults. Roughly 40-50% of child sex offenders are equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults. This suggests that these men are either hebephiles or pedophiles.

'Equally or more aroused' does not equal preferential attraction.

It is also questionable that they decided to lump pubescent 13 year olds in with prepubescents in their categories. If they really wanted to gauge the attraction to prepubescent children, they should have categorised it clearly into pubescent and prepubescent categories.

The vast majority of research on the prevalence for exclusive/preferential attraction to prepubescents indicates a much lower prevalence. However, hebephiles and ephebephiles (teen lovers) are known to be far more common. The majority of men have at least some attraction to teens.

In phallometric studies, for the prepubescent stimuli, I believe they used children 11 or younger and have no signs of sexual development. A man who is equally or more aroused by prepubescent children than by adults is probably a hebephile rather than a pedophile.

The psychiatric diagnosis for pedophilia is a primary sexual attraction to children 13 or younger, I think they included 13 year olds because some 13 year olds are still prepubescent. However, children hit puberty at 11 on average.

[pedo233]

I have a hard time believing that most men aren't attracted to pubescent-looking young teens. To be fair, you seem to start out defining pedophilia and hebephilia as sexual preferences for prepubescent or pubescent children as opposed to a mere attraction to them. It's really hard to draw lines between age groups though, since older teens and even 20-something-year olds can look as though they're in their early teens and young teens can look older.

I think its possible most men feel some attraction to pubescent girls, i read that in amazonian tribes, once a girl hit puberty and began to develop breasts around 12, men in the tribe would fight to have sex with her. The age of consent in most places in the world was 12 until a few centuries ago. Generally it was considered okay to have sex with a girl once she hit puberty.

Nowadays they might no longer feel attraction since there is a strong taboo against being attracted to people below the age of consent, at least in western societies, its considered somewhat acceptable if the girl looks like an adult but otherwise its seen as immoral.