MAP Nation

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Bookshelf
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:31 am

MAP Nation

Post by Bookshelf »

I was reading through the post 'The Case for Pedophile Nationalism' by PorcelainLark over in general, and it got me thinking about what might be a fun discussion. Let's say hypothetically we got through all the issues revolving around starting a country and have successfully achieved a nation for MAPs — what would this country look like?

Note: I'm not looking to discuss whether this is viable, whether it'll work or not, etc; this is meant to be a fun-to-discuss hypothetical scenario where we just imagine what a country would look like if we were in charge. At best we might get some insight on how we can change our own countries to fit a MAP framework.

Taking into consideration how a country might be structured to benefit MAPs, youth, etc, let's talk about some of questions like this:
  1. Which government styles would we use? Parliamentary, presidential, etc
  2. Would we be a democracy? If not, why not?
  3. Assuming we are a democracy, which voting system would we use?
  4. Which economic system would we use?
  5. Should we strive for lower or higher taxes? How would this benefit MAPs and youth?
  6. Should we have an age of consent? If not, how would you propose we protect youth against abuse? If yes, what age should it be and why?
  7. Should education be mandatory?
  8. Would we continue pursuing a traditional / nuclear family model, or move to something else?
  9. What are some rights that youth should have in this new country that are absent in most countries today?
  10. What do you think is the most simple cause of anti-MAP sentiments are in the world — and how would this hypothetical country prevent that from manifesting in the first place?
And of course, ask/answer whatever else you think is relevant. Looking forward to seeing what people think.
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White sea Snow Elf
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by White sea Snow Elf »

If I were asked to conceive of this MAP country, I would probably adopt a more conservative strategy, but at the same time maintain a certain progressive and innovative thinking. In any case, although the imagination can be radical, it must be assumed that this MAP country is based on reality.

1. I support the parliamentary system. MAP cannot rely too much on strongman politics. If there is any old European noble who is willing to take the risk of "disgrace" to become our king, then I think constitutional monarchy is also a viable option.
But if we are to practice liquid democracy, then the most likely political system is a Swiss-like committee system, rather than a parliamentary or presidential system.

2.Democratic system, including constitutionalism, is the bottom line, because even if we can find an authoritarian who is 100% good to MAP, we cannot guarantee what will happen after he steps down or dies. All our efforts may disappear with his death.
The key to the problem is how to transform democracy from a rigid system of "either you or me" into a flexible system of "seeking common ground while reserving differences" and avoid the influence of populism on politics as much as possible.

3.The conservative way is to adopt the model of representative democracy and universal suffrage (of course we must lower the voting age, otherwise it does not make sense logically).
But in fact, I would like to boldly adopt Liquid democracy here, because we must consider that even representative democracy cannot avoid the situation where the majority kidnaps the minority, and many people have said how big the ideological differences between MAPs are, and we cannot guarantee that we will never involve political and economic issues. The characteristic of Liquid democracy is that this system allows voters from different camps to naturally gather together to form communities with different ideas, and local governments can design different laws for different ideas. As a result, local laws may be complex and have obvious ideological tendencies, but the laws at the national level are simpler and less controversial, which can ensure that we can adhere to our own ideas while working for the common goals of MAP, and avoid direct ideological conflicts to the greatest extent.
And in this way, we can also set an example for other democratic countries. If we succeed, then we will be the forerunners of democratic system reform, and contributions mean the right to speak.
(My English is not good, but everyone can try to understand this new democratic concept)

4.In general, we should adopt free trade, and the state should minimize its intervention in the economy. It is impossible for us to completely cut off contact with the outside world, but at the same time, based on what I said above, we will allow many communities with socialist positions to govern themselves, and they can adopt different economic welfare and tax policies.

5.I think we can't have low taxes in the early stage, because the situation of MAP is still very dangerous. We must ensure that we have a strong national defense force and an intelligence department that is as powerful as Mossad. We must not only protect our citizens, but also pay attention to the safety of MAP in other overseas regions (but we can't let our intelligence department monitor our own people). And considering that many MAP have suffered varying degrees of physical and mental injuries, it is necessary for us to set aside a special fund to heal these people and find them a decent job.

6.I think the 12+6 position advocated by mu is a feasible solution, but if conditions permit, we can consider directly adopting the "subjective consent" solution. Other countries are likely to ask us to make concessions on AOC, so the possibility of taking a moderate middle position is very high.

7.Theoretically, we should not establish any compulsory public education, but considering that people have instilled too much biased and negative information into MAP, we should adopt certain education to tell children different information and knowledge, but at the same time children also have the right to choose not to go to school.

8.The traditional family is still the most appropriate choice, but family members must be guaranteed the right to leave the family freely, and the family must not be allowed to form absolute power.

9.Personal property rights, employment, alcohol use, tobacco use, military service, political participation, etc. (which may also require some degree of additional age protection)

10.The simplest reason is endless moral inflation, adhering to absolute moralism but raising it to a very high level (but at the same time they themselves cannot reach that standard), because once our country is established, the first thing that will be affected is that many people will regard us as a "new Sodom" and a "morally corrupt" country.
The second is to bravely expose their hypocrisy and political speculation mentality, and not try to influence those opponents with a fairy-tale attitude.
Last edited by White sea Snow Elf on Sun Jan 26, 2025 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BLueRibbon
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by BLueRibbon »

1. Which government styles would we use? Parliamentary, presidential, etc
Rule by an unelected committee of people who are at least somewhat qualified for their role.
2. Would we be a democracy? If not, why not?
No, because then leadership devolves into a game of populism, rather than selecting the best person for the job.
3. Assuming we are a democracy, which voting system would we use?
N/A
4. Which economic system would we use?
Capitalism, with sensible (not extreme) regulations to keep people reasonably safe and healthy without stifling economic growth and small businesses.
5. Should we strive for lower or higher taxes? How would this benefit MAPs and youth?
Moderate taxes for the middle class, low taxes for the working class, and a basic safety net. Nothing extreme in any direction. Deciding how to tax very wealthy people is difficult if you want them to be paying tax and spending money in your country, but perhaps the pull of a 'MAP country' would be sufficient to keep the richest MAPs.
6. Should we have an age of consent? If not, how would you propose we protect youth against abuse? If yes, what age should it be and why?
16/8 or 16/10, following the 16/12 model. Significant prison sentences only for violence or extreme exploitation, and a focus on rehabilitation.
7. Should education be mandatory?
Yes, and it should cover many skills, not just academic subjects. Students of all genders should learn about taxes, laws, trades and crafts, and their civil rights.
8. Would we continue pursuing a traditional / nuclear family model, or move to something else?
Not the state's business.
9. What are some rights that youth should have in this new country that are absent in most countries today?
More legal rights and responsibilities for teenagers, as seen in Germany, but with low grade punishments for offenses.
10. What do you think is the most simple cause of anti-MAP sentiments are in the world — and how would this hypothetical country prevent that from manifesting in the first place?
"MAPs are gross and want to rape children".

Educate young people from an early age about tolerance and acceptance, as part of a very liberal sex education that includes teaching them about MAPs.

We would need significant security to prevent attacks from outsiders, too.
Brian Ribbon, Mu Co-Founder and Strategist

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Non Name
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by Non Name »

1. Delegate parliament
2. Yes, a paedophile-only democracy that is. The teleios clearly can't be trusted to do anything correctly
3. Proportional representation
4. Syndicalism
5. Taxes should be abolished
6. No, although for children younger then 8 a complaint from the child would be all that's needed to get a third-party to intervene
7. No, the Sudbury model of schooling should be adopted instead
8. "It takes a village..." model
9. The right to consent, the right to participate in politics and the right for full bodily autonomy
10. Sexphobia, a culture of radical sex-positivity
Outis
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by Outis »

I would go with the policies of Equitoria.

Direct democracy but underpinned by a constitution that doesn't allow for any bias by sexuality or sexual preferences. It isn't about pushing a sexual agenda, Equitoria is more focused on building a truly democratic system and economy that enriches its citizens, but as a fundamental principle no one, including maps, can be treated differently in any way for their sexuality or preferences.

Of course there are still laws about harming others, so rape is rape regardless of sexuality, age or gender, but fundamentally a map can be open about their sexuality and it's no better or worse than any other sexuality, and people are encouraged to be proud of their sexuality, whatever it is, and yes that includes maps.

But apart from that, the state has no interest in a persons sexuality beyond protecting a citizens right to have any sexuality they choose. The state is not responsible for feelings, relationships, sex lives or anything personal like that. It can't tell anyone whether they can or can't have an abortion, can't tell anyone what they can and can't do that is personal to them.There is a clear distinction between what the state is responsible for, such as anything national that impacts a large number of citizens such as defence and healthcare.
Keep every stone they throw at you. You've got castles to build.
The power of the people is stronger than the people in power.

To endaavor to domineer over conscience, is to invade the citadel of heaven.
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor
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Lennon72
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by Lennon72 »

Wow! What a lot good questions to think about. Well, here I go.

Which government styles would we use? Parliamentary, presidential, etc
I am not exactly familiar with how all of our different governments work. I am only familiar with how my government works. It has been very corrupt within recent decades but I really like how my forefather set it up. I personally like heaving three levels of government. We have our senators and representatives and then we have our president. I think it works well.
Would we be a democracy? If not, why not?
It must absolutely be a democratic republic.
Assuming we are a democracy, which voting system would we use?
Popular vote only. One person. one vote. I don't belive in the state in having a vote.
Which economic system would we use?
That is a tricky one. I think that we should have a free market system that benefits not just the wealthy, but everybody.
Should we strive for lower or higher taxes? How would this benefit MAPs and youth?
The tax issue is a tough one. I think that taxes should be raised or lowered depending on the situation. And taxes should be more representative. For example, if you tax the gas pump, the taxes should be used for better roads and bridges. If you tax for textbooks, it should go towards better quality education. Taxes should never be used to benefit the rich. Tax breaks can be used in order to persuade people to do something that will be benefit others or the ecosysytem that we dpend on. For example, we give tax breaks to companies that wish to use more ecofriendly business practices. I think that the benefits of such a system is self explanatory.
Should we have an age of consent? If not, how would you propose we protect youth against abuse? If yes, what age should it be and why?
I am not a big supporter of AOC. There is no magical number. As to how we protect against abuse, I have no clear answer. But I think that these things need to be looked at on a case by case basis. Different things will have to be considered such as whether or not one is being forced, coerced, or manipulated. But if both parties are able to make informed decisions and are willing participants, then there should be no punishment.
Should education be mandatory?
Education should be mandatory. However, there should also be more choices available as to what kind of education a child can have. Both rich and poor should have equal opportunity when it comes to this issue.
Would we continue pursuing a traditional / nuclear family model, or move to something else?
People should be free to have whatever kind of family structure that they wish. It deosn't have to be the traditional nuclear family.
What are some rights that youth should have in this new country that are absent in most countries today?
It is very difficult for me to name any specifics here but I will say that we need to pay more attention to the thoughts and feelings of out youth than we do in present times. We need to stop acting as if we own them and give them some more independence as they get older
What do you think is the most simple cause of anti-MAP sentiments are in the world — and how would this hypothetical country prevent that from manifesting in the first place?
I think that people still foolishly belive that we are preadators who are out to abuse kids. We simply need to do like we currently do here on MU. EDUCATE EDUCATE EDUCATE We also need to make it easier for us MAPS to be more open about ourselves.
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PorcelainLark
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by PorcelainLark »

Which government styles would we use? Parliamentary, presidential, etc
I prefer parlimentary. I feel like recent events in America have shown the instability that comes with too much centralized executive power.
Would we be a democracy? If not, why not?
Yes, you need to be able to remove ruling parties from power if they fail the people and I haven't seen an alternative way to do that. Although I would try to balance it with technocratic elements. For example, a democratically elected lower chamber, and a higher chamber connected with academic institutions. The lower chamber would propose laws and the higher chamber would have the power to veto laws that go against available scientific evidence.
Assuming we are a democracy, which voting system would we use?
Instant-runoff voting to prevent issues with strategic voting.
Which economic system would we use?
Market socialism in the early stages, social democracy in later stages. Market socialism as a compromise between dealing with the socialist calculation debate and the fact that in practical terms a pedophile state would have to practice a high degree of autarky. If we achieved peace and recognition with other countries, we could switch to more liberal economic policies, although, because I expect the population of MAPs is small, it wouldn't make sense to try and pursue economic growth over everything. Keeping political independence would require limiting the number of non-MAPs becoming citizens, which in turn means you can't pursue unrestricted economic growth.
Should we strive for lower or higher taxes? How would this benefit MAPs and youth?
I would say high taxes. Being a primarily autarkic country, there would be little use for disposable income. Perhaps, have two different currencies, one for foreign luxury goods which is untaxed, and another which is for economic necessities which is localized, if there were outside countries willing to trade.
Should we have an age of consent? If not, how would you propose we protect youth against abuse? If yes, what age should it be and why?
No. I think laws should be structured around harm, rather than age. Causing physical or psychological trauma would be criminal, but statutory rape as it currently is wouldn't be.
Should education be mandatory?
Yes. Participation in an autarkic state would require both economic and political education.
Would we continue pursuing a traditional / nuclear family model, or move to something else?
I would say a predominantly MAP state would have to have a different parenting structure. Perhaps closer to how indigenous communities collectively raise children. I would say children would have a parental figure who isn't attracted to them (e.g. a homosexual man looking after a young girl), and a pederast-like mentor that is attracted to them who would educate them in some capacity. Mentors would be changed if they failed in their duties, while the parental figure would usually remain the same. So most adults would have two children they had to care for, one they were unattracted to, whom they have a higher responsibility to, and one they could engage in a romantic relationship with, which could be taken away if they mistreated them.
What are some rights that youth should have in this new country that are absent in most countries today?
I think the rights would largely be the same.
What do you think is the most simple cause of anti-MAP sentiments are in the world — and how would this hypothetical country prevent that from manifesting in the first place?
Sex-negativity as it leads to feeling as though children need to be protected from sexuality because of their purity from it. I would say you prevent it by seeing sex as a need rather than a want. So for example, you might be taught to masturbate in a similar manner to being taught to brush your teeth or eat healthily. Sexual repression would generally be seen as a sign of being maladjusted. I might even go so far as saying you need a general stigma/taboo against celibacy.
Taking a break.
AtosW
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by AtosW »

Has anybody seriously looked into the possibility of purchasing some unpopulated or abandoned island, like one of the remote islands of Kiribati (most of it is completely depopulated now) or even somewhere in the Caribbean, for this purpose?
Outis
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by Outis »

AtosW wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 5:53 pm Has anybody seriously looked into the possibility of purchasing some unpopulated or abandoned island, like one of the remote islands of Kiribati (most of it is completely depopulated now) or even somewhere in the Caribbean, for this purpose?
I'm not aware of any maps looking into it, but other groups have and have formed nations. The biggest challenge is getting international recognition as a state. It is possible to buy an island and even make an agreement with the owning state to release the island to be governed independently and you can do that and build a country, but if it's to become internationally recognised then there's a big PR activity to get governments to recognise it.
Keep every stone they throw at you. You've got castles to build.
The power of the people is stronger than the people in power.

To endaavor to domineer over conscience, is to invade the citadel of heaven.
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor
SkippyDazzo
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Re: MAP Nation

Post by SkippyDazzo »

Ok, so let me break this down, from my point of view. As myself and some others have been working on building our own small community.

1. Which government styles would we use? Parliamentary, presidential, etc
Would be something like a constitutional theocratic government, with a Prime Minister as a head of state.

2. Would we be a democracy? If not, why not?
Democracies are not a ideal system of government, as they are a breeding ground for corruption. The people who get elected are not in office for very long, so don't have to be held accountable for the actions they took while in office. Because hey, now it's someone else's problem.

3. Assuming we are a democracy, which voting system would we use?
N/A

4. Which economic system would we use?
Some kind of Socialism, or something simmuliar

5. Should we strive for lower or higher taxes? How would this benefit MAPs and youth?
Set ammount for everyone, say something like 10% of the average yearly income.

6. Should we have an age of consent? If not, how would you propose we protect youth against abuse? If yes, what age should it be and why?
Yes, would suggest 14 or 16 for both males and females. Alot of cultures have a coming of age passage around these ages.

7. Should education be mandatory?
Yes. However, it can be taught at home, or in a school. Either place would need to have the same set of curriculum. To ensure the student is learning, tested should be done during set times of the year.

8. Would we continue pursuing a traditional / nuclear family model, or move to something else?
The traditional family model seems to have the strongest outcome's. However if the child is living in a toxic home, other options should be available on a case by case basis.

9. What are some rights that youth should have in this new country that are absent in most countries today?
How about the right to leave, if the society doesn't work for you. Maybe have a written social contract, to protect everyone's right's.

10. What do you think is the most simple cause of anti-MAP sentiments are in the world — and how would this hypothetical country prevent that from manifesting in the first place?
Religion and culture play the biggest role.

The idea of a Island was mentioned, which makes me wonder about the logistics of everything working. Either on a island, or on remote land somewhere. What if no other state would trade with you? How would the community survive?
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