Pedophilia treatment for MAPs

[Lightie Twinkle]

I don't know if these days there are still projects for this. But I was thinking about what I have heard that their goal is to change the Age of attraction to the "normal" one.

Then came to my mind that if it was possible to change to who one is attracted it would be possible that a person who is attracted to Adults be changed to be attracted to children and that would be more reason to not consider Pedophilia as a disorder since any person could be changed at will. Basically a joke.

But even if it weren't that way that we are born with this trait should be a reason to not consider it as a disorder rather as a difference.
As an example if 5 people are born in a day. Each one is born with an AoA. One 15-17 Two 5-8 Three 20-33 Four 1-4 and Five 60-80.
All of them are just born with different attractions equally as if 5 persons are born in a day each one with colors likes. One Blue, Two Yellow, Three Black, Four Pink, Five Gray.

The problem is that people who are born with AoAs past 18 don't like people who were born with -18 AoA and because of that they treat them badly. But what about people born with different color likes? Do the ones who like Black need to hate the ones who like Pink? Do they need to treat them badly?

For me all of this sounds like a school bully born with black hair hitting the little one just because he doesn't like that little one was born with red hair. Basically no sense.

So what is the problem with MAPs? Misconceptions or just because they don't like it? Both?

[PorcelainLark]

As with with homosexuality, they think it's immoral, so they assume that it can be changed.

When people say "get help" to a person who is open about being a MAP, they don't actually have evidence that age orientation can change. They say it because it has the quality of "truthiness."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

It's a way of shutting down critical thinking about whether MAPs are being treated unfairly by the general public, since any problems MAPs face are blame-shifted onto themselves for their failure to seek help, their lack of shame about their attraction, etc. Imagine sticking your neck out for an unpopular position on social media because you've done your research; it's hard enough even when the topic isn't pedophilia. It's not a hill most people are willing to die on, unless they are exceptionally thick-skinned and honest (amongst other qualities).

[Lightie Twinkle]

As with with homosexuality, they think it's immoral, so they assume that it can be changed.

What I don't understand from them is why is it immoral? Because they don't like it?

It's a way of shutting down critical thinking about whether MAPs are being treated unfairly by the general public, since any problems MAPs face are blame-shifted onto themselves for their failure to seek help, their lack of shame about their attraction, etc. Imagine sticking your neck out for an unpopular position on social media because you've done your research; it's hard enough even when the topic isn't pedophilia. It's not a hill most people are willing to die on, unless they are exceptionally thick-skinned and honest (amongst other qualities).

You're right even if someone is totally correct there will be some who won't like that but what is needed is respect for differences.

[PorcelainLark]

What I don't understand from them is why is it immoral? Because they don't like it?

In the case of homosexuality it's mostly a hold over from when religion was popularly considered to be inseparable from morality. For example, in the Old Testament, Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

As society has become more secular, society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. Although during the 19th and 20th century there was a strong attempt to find a secular rationalization for the religious viewpoint. For example, treating homosexuality as though it's a kind of psychological failure

In the case of pedophilia, the major event was the publication of The Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon, an expose of child prostitution that lead to raising the age of consent. Basically, it's origins are wrapped up in 19th century attitudes towards prostitution. Then there was also the discovery of the link between PTSD and CSA (while of course it does exist, it doesn't follow that all AMSC is traumatic or predatory). There is also the sex negativity of American Christians that try to frame abstinence-only sex education, opposition to masturbation, and premarital sex as secular, so that if minors have access to sex education, contraceptives, or pornography, they can smear liberals by saying they support grooming and by extension CSA.
Lastly I'd speculate that prior these, it's closely related to patrilineal inheritance systems (i.e. father to son): since it's harder to determine whether a child is the son of the father than determining that a child is legitimate offspring of the mother, there's a strong pressure for women and girls to remain virgins until marriage. Widespread syphilis in the 19th century added this pressure to men and boys where it didn't used to exist to the same degree, since a husband could end up infecting his wife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maide ... rn_Babylon

Prior to that, I'd say it goes back to asceticism, i.e. the idea that you should reject bodily and sensual pleasure, either because of a reward in the afterlife (Christianity) or because of self-control (Stoicism).

You're right even if someone is totally correct there will be some who won't like that but what is needed is respect for differences.

Amongst reasonable people that's the right way to think, however, sadly, we are dealing with bullies. What's needed is a willingness to stand up to people who won't listen to reason, to push forward in spite of them. Like with Lyndon B Johnson and desegregation, sometimes you have to impose the right thing on others when they refuse to do it. Which is why I think the law is the best way to achieve progress: we don't have to be popular, just persuasive to judges.

I wish it didn't have to be this way and that people would come around of their own volition, but I don't think it's possible as long as the American right-wing dictate the direction of cultural norms around the world.

[Lightie Twinkle]

Thanks for that info, PorcelainLark.

[PorcelainLark]

Thanks for that info, PorcelainLark.

No problem.

[CL2025]

I was born this way. I was attracted to Children since I was one and never grew out of it. I don't think anyone wakes up one day and chooses to be a societal outcast. I also don't think attitudes will ever change in the west; at least not in my time. I'd shure love a trip to Cambodia

[Fragment]

I'd shure love a trip to Cambodia

So you can get taken down by an Australian NGO?

[Outis]

I don't believe anyone is born with an AoA above 18, or a tiny minority of people are.

If numbers didn't exist, people would be attracted to people they just find attractive, often this would change over time for individuals. A 20 year old guy might be attracted to that 13 year old girl or that 25 year old guy might fancy that 15 year old girl while that 11 year old girl might be having wet dreams about that 28 year old teacher or guy her older brother knows.

But we have numbers and love to categorise things, it's like a weird human obsession, so we categorise people as adults and kids and teenagers and young adults and senior citizens and middle age people and toddlers and so on, and we then say anyone who fancies someone under 18 has Minor Attracted Feelings and if they have them a lot then they're a MAP or Pedophile.

But it's all meaningless really, it's just people trying to come up with categories for something that doesn't really exist.

[Lightie Twinkle]

I don't believe anyone is born with an AoA above 18, or a tiny minority of people are.

If numbers didn't exist, people would be attracted to people they just find attractive, often this would change over time for individuals. A 20 year old guy might be attracted to that 13 year old girl or that 25 year old guy might fancy that 15 year old girl while that 11 year old girl might be having wet dreams about that 28 year old teacher or guy her older brother knows.

But we have numbers and love to categorise things, it's like a weird human obsession, so we categorise people as adults and kids and teenagers and young adults and senior citizens and middle age people and toddlers and so on, and we then say anyone who fancies someone under 18 has Minor Attracted Feelings and if they have them a lot then they're a MAP or Pedophile.

But it's all meaningless really, it's just people trying to come up with categories for something that doesn't really exist.

I agree. But I think is like that because people at a certain age have common physical features.