Do you think loli is a good or bad thing for the map community

[WavesInEternity]

One “downside” to things like loli is its upside. It provides an outlet.

Having a legal outlet stops some people from feeling as persecuted. It can sap their motivation to get involved in activism. If we didn’t have the internet and we were involved in offline communities like PIE and NAMBLA how different would MAP politics look like today? Even if the laws were just as strict as they are now we’d be seeing more of our brothers and sisters, people we know and care about, being arrested before our eyes.

Honestly, that’s why I want people to give a shit about my legal troubles. I want them to care about me and by extension, care about injustice.

Personalizing these things beyond the abstract helps a lot. Unfortunately loli and shota can dampen that (although ultimately I support them and obviously believe all fiction should be 100% unreservedly legal).

Agreed. In the end, legal change can only happen when enough people feel deeply that the law is unjust. People need to be personally dissatisfied with the law as it is, either because they feel persecuted or someone they like/love does.

This touches upon one issue on which my thoughts and feelings are deeply torn: illegalism. I was involved in the successful campaign for cannabis legalization in my country (my involvement began long before I had even reached the legal age to use it... although I did already use it). I am still involved in the movement to legalize psychedelics.

On the one hand, I'd never have been nearly as passionate about drug liberalization if I hadn't had extremely positive experiences with some illegal drugs, including genuine life-changing epiphanies on psychedelics like shrooms and LSD and 5-MeO-MiPT, and I'd say MDMA permanently made me a better person. On the other hand, I also got addicted to opioids and other actually dangerous drugs along the way, so I know very well that illegalism is a path fraught with danger, and my opinion actually changed from supporting the full legalization of heroin and cocaine to only supporting legal possession of small amounts within a comprehensive harm reduction framework.

From my point of view, the situation with AMSC is similar in many ways. The risk of harm is immense, to the point where it can destroy lives in moments... but if it never happened at all, the law (and society) would surely never change. The impetus for it would be nowhere to be found. And yes, if MAPs were to think of themselves as "fully satisfied" with lolicon/shotacon, they wouldn't push for any sort of reform. In the same line of thought, although the prospect of eventually having legal ultra-realistic child love robots is an enticing one, it would also have serious downsides.

[Aspire6]

One “downside” to things like loli is its upside. It provides an outlet.

Having a legal outlet stops some people from feeling as persecuted. It can sap their motivation to get involved in activism.
Personalizing these things beyond the abstract helps a lot. Unfortunately loli and shota can dampen that (although ultimately I support them and obviously believe all fiction should be 100% unreservedly legal).

It is my belief that the long-term goal of legislators in the US is to get anything considered "obscene" in terms of depicting fictional minors classified the same, if not nearly the same, as child pornography. This would make possession fully illegal across the country and certain three-letter agencies can go after it more predominately as I imagine it would spike up the "child safety" arrest/charges statistics they like to tout. Anything to appeal to voters who gobble down whatever gets labeled as "protect the children". Obscenity charges vary state to state, some states criminalize it more than others while some don't usually care at all unless it is based on real children.

Agreed. In the end, legal change can only happen when enough people feel deeply that the law is unjust. People need to be personally dissatisfied with the law as it is, either because they feel persecuted or someone they like/love does.

[...]

From my point of view, the situation with AMSC is similar in many ways. The risk of harm is immense, to the point where it can destroy lives in moments... but if it never happened at all, the law (and society) would surely never change. The impetus for it would be nowhere to be found. And yes, if MAPs were to think of themselves as "fully satisfied" with lolicon/shotacon, they wouldn't push for any sort of reform. In the same line of thought, although the prospect of eventually having legal ultra-realistic child love robots is an enticing one, it would also have serious downsides.

I would imagine the fear of fictional erotica being fully illegal could be a good-enough push for more MAPs, especially in the USA, who utilize it to become vocal activists as they are the target of such changes. Finding good ways to safely advocate can be difficult though, so it is hard to say what change may occur.

[WavesInEternity]

It is my belief that the long-term goal of legislators in the US is to get anything considered "obscene" in terms of depicting fictional minors classified the same, if not nearly the same, as child pornography.

Definitely. And it's not just legislators who think that way, either. The entire conservative movement, along with sex-negative feminists, is putting pressure on lawmakers to pass more restrictive laws. Many news outlets covering legal cases involving such material have been calling it "cartoon child pornography" or "anime child pornography" for decades.

I would imagine the fear of fictional erotica being fully illegal could be a good-enough push for more MAPs, especially in the USA, who utilize it to become vocal activists as they are the target of such changes. Finding good ways to safely advocate can be difficult though, so it is hard to say what change may occur.

My worry is that those MAPs will be content with fictional erotica, and perhaps child love dolls, being legal, and won't ever push for further reform regarding youth rights and AMSC.

The reason I'm afraid of that is my own experience as a young activist. In my teens, I focused entirely on defending "obscene" fiction and opposing other forms of censorship. That was compatible with a strictly anti-contact, assimilationist stance, which I now realize was inadequate in many respects, if only due to being an inevitable cause of self-loathing and ego-dystonia for me, but also and most importantly because the current system is harmful for children as well in many ways.

Of course, making sure that fictional erotica involving children is allowed and protected by law is still much better than the alternative.

[Fragment]

One of my “favorite” articles:

AFP Detective Sergeant Aaron Hardcastle said the investigation had been significant as it marked the first time police had located and seized AI-generated child abuse material in Tasmania.

“Child abuse material, is still child abuse material, no matter what form it takes,” Det. Sgt Hardcastle said.

“People may not be aware that online simulations, fantasy, text-based stories, animations and cartoons, including artificial intelligence-generated content depicting child sexual abuse are all still considered child abuse material under Commonwealth legislation,” he said.

“Whether the image is AI-generated or depicts a real child victim, the material is repulsive and the Tasmania JACET Team, along with the AFP and its law enforcement partners, will continue to identify and locate those sharing this abhorrent content and put them before the courts.”

Note to media:
Use of term 'CHILD ABUSE' MATERIAL not ‘CHILD PORNOGRAPHY’

The correct legal term is Child Abuse Material – the move to this wording was among amendments to Commonwealth legislation in 2019 to more accurately reflect the gravity of the crimes and the harm inflicted on victims.

Use of the phrase ‘child pornography’ is inaccurate and benefits child sex abusers because it:
- Indicates legitimacy and compliance on the part of the victim and therefore legality on the part of the abuser; and
- Conjures images of children posing in 'provocative' positions, rather than suffering horrific abuse.
Every photograph or video captures an actual situation where a child has been abused.

https://www.afp.gov.au/news-centre/medi ... e-material



They don’t even realize how smooth brained their takes are. Putting their ideas together:

“Every photograph or video, including online simulations, fantasy, text-based stories, animations and cartoons, captures an actual situation where a child has been abused.”

[Aspire6]

One of my “favorite” articles:

“People may not be aware that online simulations, fantasy, text-based stories, animations and cartoons, including artificial intelligence-generated content depicting child sexual abuse are all still considered child abuse material under Commonwealth legislation,” he said.

“Whether the image is AI-generated or depicts a real child victim, the material is repulsive and the Tasmania JACET Team, along with the AFP and its law enforcement partners, will continue to identify and locate those sharing this abhorrent content and put them before the courts.”

https://www.afp.gov.au/news-centre/medi ... e-material

They don’t even realize how smooth brained their takes are. Putting their ideas together:

“Every photograph or video, including online simulations, fantasy, text-based stories, animations and cartoons, captures an actual situation where a child has been abused.”

I would be a serious offender in Australia because I divulge my fantasies privately to others, among other fiction too. I am glad I do not reside in Australia, the UK, or have any plans to visit either. They are absurd there in criminalizing, and going after, pure fiction. How much money have they wasted in their misguided crusade against fiction?

[Walton]

Loli helped me to realize what I like and it did not corrupt at all. I fully believe pedophilia and other attractions like it is always present and not caused by mental illness or the mind being warped. Loli is fiction therefore it should be 100% legal at allow people to let out their fantasies no matter what it is as long it's drawn its all good