Should people meet in person more?

[WavesInEternity]

I don't know about meeting local maps but I've met double digit numbers of maps, a few times a year I'll meet with map friends for walks in the country, dinner or some drinks. The thing to remember is that maps are adults, so this is adults meeting adults, there's nothing illegal there or particularly controversial. Law enforcement doesn't care because there's no crime being committed and that tiny group of people known as pedo hunters are trying to make names for themselves by luring pedo's to meet kids for sex. It would be a non-story, really pretty dull to catch a pedo adult meeting another pedo adult for dinner.

You'd be surprised... see for instance this news story featured on this very forum: https://forum.map-union.org/viewtopic.php?t=405

1. Tap into those age play communities that meet at clubs and have their own little networks. I'm sure at least some are maps even if they prefer to say they're not maps, they're just people who enjoy having sexual fantasies about kids

That approach would seem to be a no-go. Being into age play myself (often preferring, in fantasy, my partner to act a bit "younger" than my typical AoA), I've participated in several online kink communities. I was expelled from one that didn't allow it at all (and "reported to authorities" to boot). Among the communities that didn't prohibit it altogether, any mention of real minors, in any shape or form, would immediately get you banned. Any suggestion that you might have an interest in actual children would have you reported to the feds.

I once lost a sexting partner when I mentioned I was actually a MAP, although others were more understanding. It's obviously anecdotal and might not be representative, but in my experience, the participants (all female) playing "minors" were generally much more open-minded than the ones (all male) playing "adults". For the latter, the notion that it's "just a fantasy" was generally of paramount importance, and any suggestion to the contrary was viewed as a grave insult.

2. Perhaps consider connecting to local universities or organisations with some connection to maps. Universities often have LGBTQ+ organisations, perhaps reach out to them and introduce your local map support group so if they encounter any maps they could give them contact details for the support group. So it's a way for the LGBTQ+ organisation to direct maps away from them but to somewhere supportive still. Or local legal firms or therapists who deal with maps. So it's a map support group that helps maps in practical ways, it could be finding work, somewhere to live or just meeting other maps socially to build a friend and support network.

As far as I'm aware, the MAP community has been trying consistently and repeatedly to find allies among the LGBTQ+ movement, unfortunately to little avail. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying, though...

[Outis]

You'd be surprised... see for instance this news story featured on this very forum: https://forum.map-union.org/viewtopic.php?t=405

That's insane. I suppose these things do happen from time to time, especially if it's a large formal meeting.

[Lennon72]

I only met another MAP in person twice. It was the same guy and we met through a soacial media site called Experience Project. This gives me a bit if an idea but I do not know that it would work. I suppose a we could all set up a website for MAPS in our immediate area but it is pretty much hit or miss. The town that I live in isn't exactly large so I would probably have a more difficult tine with it then most.

[Kylelomaz]

I agreed being face to face feels better and u feel like u get more things done more of a better understanding for one another.
I would most definitely like the idea of there being places to meet up and headquarters.
I notice lots of groups have social meetings via political parties the homosexuals the far right the bikies,gangs and other outlaws ect .
They have places to meet up and socialise I can’t help but feel if there was a place maps to meet then that could really help a young teenager coming to terms with his/ her attractions to minors.
Let me know when you do have something arranged I would love to come.

[hugs]

I see. So more similar to the illegal headshops that pop up repeatedly in e.g. North America and the Netherlands selling magic mushrooms, get shut down by the authorities only to reopen under a different guise, get shut down again with harsher penalties, are recreated again in an even more brazen form, until (by now, after half a century of efforts) some are finally left alone because city authorities decided it's low-priority for law enforcement.

A high-risk, high-reward labour of love, for people willing to jeopardize their entire future for a cause they believe in.

It just might work in the right city, at the right time, but the world isn't ready for it now. As things stand, it'd be like suggesting a meeting place for kitten torture enthusiasts.

The gays back then didn't have the Internet. It's really the main reason. The cost/benefit analysis has changed completely. Prison sucks; anonymity is usually a good way to avoid it.

I don't think it would be all that grim, actually.

In reality, map meeting places, which I'll refer to as 'clubhouses' henceforth, would probably look a lot like the gay bars that I'm taking inspiration from. Every once-in-a-while, some patrons might get detained and questioned for a few days, but ultimately the clubhouse would likely be a great place for us to build a strong community. There are certainly reasons to be afraid that it will inevitably fail, but that's all the more reason to try it. Our community doesn't have much experience and data on in-person meetings and activism, so something like this, even if it were to fail, would provide us with an abundance of information that we could learn from and build on in our future efforts.

I agree that it's preferable to engage with maps anonymously on the internet, but the web is nothing more than a simulacrum; a prison in its own right. We have to transcend it if we want to affect change. The world will never be ready.

[hugs]

I only met another MAP in person twice. It was the same guy and we met through a social media site called Experience Project. This gives me a bit if an idea but I do not know that it would work. I suppose a we could all set up a website for MAPS in our immediate area but it is pretty much hit or miss. The town that I live in isn't exactly large so I would probably have a more difficult time with it then most.

We might be able to work with this. There are already tons of sites made specifically for local meetings: meetup.com, eventbrite, facebook groups, and more. We could form groups for our local areas and see if anyone bites. You could even form a group anonymously, if you want, though that might scare some people away. Moreover, if mainstream sites fail to work for us, either due to bans or a small map population, then we could probably host our own sites or use the fediverse to build small meet-up servers. If your town is small, then you could base your group in the nearest city. Then, any maps in and around that city would be in your community. That allows you to cast a wider net.

It might be a risk to allow the groups to grow too large, so we might have to abandon these sites in favor of more secretive measures eventually, but this could work as a start.

[Outis]

I don't see such meetups as risky as they might feel, especially if they're intended to act as support groups by maps for maps.

I mean it isn't illegal to be a map of course and at worse if you're against maps then a support group is a positive thing, sort of like alcoholics forming a support group for alcoholics run by alcoholics, not for the purpose of drinking but supporting each other and helping each other stay on the bandwagon so to speak. The optics don't have to be bad. In fact you could probably form it as a national or international thing like Alcholics Anonymous.

Maps working together to create safe spaces for maps, helping maps to stay on the right side of the law, helping maps to get the support they need (access to legal, medical, housing etc) and providing a safe space for maps to talk and support each other. It's a positive thing. Of course some people would hate it because it's maps but it should be possible to counter such attacks by pointing out they are advocating for maps to not get support and to be out there doing the things they fear, so they should be supportive of such things.

Just a thought for how to phrase it so that the optics are decent. I mean all that is true but it's first and foremost a way to meet other maps as friends in local events and safe spaces.

[WavesInEternity]

I don't see such meetups as risky as they might feel, especially if they're intended to act as support groups by maps for maps.

I mean it isn't illegal to be a map of course and at worse if you're against maps then a support group is a positive thing, sort of like alcoholics forming a support group for alcoholics run by alcoholics, not for the purpose of drinking but supporting each other and helping each other stay on the bandwagon so to speak. The optics don't have to be bad. In fact you could probably form it as a national or international thing like Alcholics Anonymous.

That was how the PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange) headed by Tom O'Carroll presented itself in the 1970s. A support group for paedophiles by paedophiles, with some activism on the side.

The group was extremely controversial from its inception, receiving a lot of negative publicity in the press, and it was dismantled by authorities after a few years. Several members were indicted on charges of "conspiracy to corrupt public morals" and O'Carroll spent a couple of years in prison.

I don't think it would be all that grim, actually.

I think you strongly underestimate how much greater the stigma against MAPs is compared to that against homosexuals a few decades ago...

[Outis]

I don't see such meetups as risky as they might feel, especially if they're intended to act as support groups by maps for maps.

I mean it isn't illegal to be a map of course and at worse if you're against maps then a support group is a positive thing, sort of like alcoholics forming a support group for alcoholics run by alcoholics, not for the purpose of drinking but supporting each other and helping each other stay on the bandwagon so to speak. The optics don't have to be bad. In fact you could probably form it as a national or international thing like Alcholics Anonymous.

That was how the PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange) headed by Tom O'Carroll presented itself in the 1970s. A support group for paedophiles by paedophiles, with some activism on the side.

The group was extremely controversial from its inception, receiving a lot of negative publicity in the press, and it was dismantled by authorities after a few years. Several members were indicted on charges of "conspiracy to corrupt public morals" and O'Carroll spent a couple of years in prison.

I don't think it would be all that grim, actually.

I think you strongly underestimate how much greater the stigma against MAPs is compared to that against homosexuals a few decades ago...

You might be right, although things have changed since PIE and lessons can be learned from how PIE conducted itself and presented itself.
It could even be done in collaboration with therapists, academics and agencies responsible for getting ex-offenders back into society. I'm not suggesting it's simple or easy or even definitely the right thing to do, but only that it is worth considering.

[Fragment]

I’d never been drawn into answering a question about sexual contact of any kind with a 4 year old.

PIE and NAMBLA both got caught out being philosophically pure in a way that resulted in poor optics and backlash.

We need to be smarter. Much much smarter.