SOMALI MEN RISE UP AGAINST EFFORT TO RAISE AOC TO 18

[Anonymous_Lover]

As I've said before, because its often the case that I'm being lectured by so-called "practical" and "level-headed" MAPs who claim we need to beg for the scraps that come from the liberal establishments table, if you were judging ideologies based on efficacy when it comes to getting MAP rights in the 21st century then you would be forced to become a muslim. That so-called practical reform-oriented MAPs never argue for this shows that they are thralls of the liberal bourgeoisie who put liberal ideology over MAP liberation -- all while calling you an ideologist for thinking that liberalism poses challenges for MAPs on a fundamental level or that maybe blue haired genderqueers who shriek about pedos might not be great allies. One of the primary battlecries of the democratic party in 2025 is that the GOP is a party of "predators" and that Trump must imminently "release the [Epstein] list" they have their own QAnon-style conspiracy theorists of their own. The only places where we've seen success in lowering or preventing efforts to raise the AOC in the 21st century are in Muslim countries: afghanistan, iraq, and now somalia. Also, worth noting that Somali men just rose up against a government that can't claim to represent them as its a world famous failed status rather than hoping that Salon or VICE writes another article about no-contact pedophiles.

When one of my posts criticizing modern liberal feminism from this forum was featured on /r/inceltears Whiskey claimed that "the women hate thing is cringe" and yet when I asked him about what part of my post was actually misogynistic he did not answer. Probably because like many bien-pensant Europeans on this forum he sees a post criticizing feminism and the state of modern women and his mind goes to it being misogynistic inherently because that's what he's been trained to do by Western liberal society. We can talk about what feminists might be useful to our cause but guess what these Somali muslims and other muslims who've actually done shit to lower the AOC probably can't be called feminists. Not from a modernist perspective at least. I see more effort at trying to prove "nah we're totally woke feminists too, akshually" then I see at trying to appeal to or recruit the non-feminist male forces most likely to go into the streets for our cause. You might treat the topic of feminism with nuance but it turns out that the feminists on X didn't treat this with nuance at all and described it as "men protesting for the right to rape" on posts that got tens and even hundreds of thousands of likes. They don't want to have that conversation with you and they aren't going to. They are fighting rn on their side of Elevatorgate 2.0 after a twitch streamer invited another streamer to a party at twitchcon and when she asked why he said its because she's very beautiful. This is objectification according to twitter normies and feminists. So what do you think they are going to think about your cause? Yes, feminists on X can be quite nuanced and empathetic about Somali men if its a matter of them immigrating illegally to Europe, forming jihai groups, engaging in piracy in international waters, they are black muslim men from a formerly colonized country after all... but the minute they don't agree with Western notions of a magic age line that begins at 18? All nuance is dropped and they become rapists protesting for rape. The question on whether its rape, whether they would agree its rape and whether there are conditions where rape is subjective, never enters their minds, nor is it allowed to enter the conversation. Somalis engage in piracy? Thats just a legacy of colonialism and racism. Somali men disagree on the age of consent? Well, then suddenly the inner moral crusading colonialist inside Western feminists (women of color included) comes out!

https://x.com/TARUNspeakss/status/1976286189637468169

[Bookshelf]

You'd think different age of consents and the observable effects that they have on countries (or lack thereof) would be something people could look to for evidence that just raising the age doesn't really do anything.

You'll have multiple countries where the age of consent is 16, versus multiple neighboring countries where the age of consent is 18. You could look at the differences in different statistics — do the former countries have higher rates of teen pregnancy? Evidence of more widespread trauma? Worse STD infection rates? Worse crime rates in other areas such as adult rape or murder? Fuck, what about consistent poorer performing mundane statistics like employment rates and economic growth? Anything that you could stick on a graph and say "Look, raising the age of consent could have a positive impact in these areas!"

Usually you won't find any consistent difference between groups of countries with different ages of consent like this. People that grew up in a country where it was legal for them to fuck or get fucked at 16 typically aren't any different than countries where people had to wait an extra couple of years.

Yet despite the fact that you can look at, for example, the UK where it's 16 and compare many aspects to the US where it's federally 18 and see the UK outperforms the US on many statistics— and many would argue culturally the UK isn't quite as messed up as the US is just yet— you'll still find people pushing a need for it to be raised to 18.

This is because the age of consent isn't based on evidence, it's based on hysteria and feelings.

[PorcelainLark]

If you can get what you want in Somalia, why worry about MAP liberation? Why not just move there and stop caring about what happens in the rest of the world? I'm sure we'll all find it very illuminating when you show us how great it is living there.

I don't have it in me to pretend to believe in Islam. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.

[Jim Burton]

Archives of Wikipedia and AgeOfConsent.com

https://web.archive.org/web/20250000000 ... nsent.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20041229070 ... of_consent

Present day (Wikipedia-reported) ages of consent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_by_country

These would appear to problematize the claim of AnonymousLover, that only Muslim countries have liberalized or fought off tightening age of consent laws during the intervening period (the 21st Century).

[Jim Burton]

Anyway, welcome back, I don't see religious governance of any sort as a way forward for the West, or for these topics/sexually deviant people in the broader sense. You might find that it works in enclaves, and in particular examples (within marriage, tradition, to the exclusion of queerness), but that will be isolated and outside of western society, which has already swallowed the pill of neoliberalism.

Yesmap doesn't seem to be able to support Matrix at this time, so I'd have to create an account on a new server to view PCMA.

[Artaxerxes II]

If you can get what you want in Somalia, why worry about MAP liberation? Why not just move there and stop caring about what happens in the rest of the world? I'm sure we'll all find it very illuminating when you show us how great it is living there.

I don't have it in me to pretend to believe in Islam. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.

“If you can get what you want in the Rules-Based Order of Freedom/Human Rights/Democracy of le Western (TM), why worry about MAP liberation? Why not just do nothing and stop caring about what happens in the rest of the world? I'm sure we'll all find it very illuminating when you show us how great it is with the sex offender registry and all that.

I don't have it in me to pretend to believe in Holocaustianity and liberalism. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.”

In all seriousness though, it’s hilarious how you had to deflect his points (namely, that the current MAP strategy of begging for crumbs from the PMC that is losing out to Le Populists (TM) so far has been an abysmal failure) and had to resort to “le blacks bad, m’kay”. Truly a trained liberal lapdog.

[Anonymous_Lover]

Archives of Wikipedia and AgeOfConsent.com

https://web.archive.org/web/20250000000 ... nsent.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20041229070 ... of_consent

Present day (Wikipedia-reported) ages of consent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_by_country

These would appear to problematize the claim of AnonymousLover, that only Muslim countries have liberalized or fought off tightening age of consent laws during the intervening period (the 21st Century).

I'm not aware of any non-muslim countries where the age of consent has actually been lowered since the turn of the millennium, if anything its only gotten higher. To be absolutely fair, if Hina's reading of German law is correct, there is a recent addition to their age of consent law which makes sex between an adult and a minor down to 11 not inherently a crime. But the statute is so vague or open to weaponization that it might as well still be illegal in the current climate and this is assuming his interpretation of said law is accurate. A longstanding similar legal practice that left open a legal grey area for sex down to 11 was actually closed in France recently making the aoc a solid hard universal 15.

I can think of countries once lauded by MAPs for their lax laws and attitudes that have now gotten stricter and made the aoc higher: Japan, The Philippines, Mexico, Columbia (recently banned child marriage making the minimum marriage age 18).

Face it, Western Liberal countries and Christian Third World countries aligned with the West are handing out big Ls as far as MAPs are concerned. Apparently, even Lula is governing as a hardcore anti-MAP in Brazil despite proposing lowering the age of consent to 12 in 2002.

Outside of a handful of muslim countries I see no progress being made at the legal level. And, no, I'm not an advocate for Islamic theocracy in the West, nor do I think it likely, but this is a demographic that can be leveraged to help us attain victory in the West. What would be wrong with outreach to say, UK muslims?

This could not be much worse as a strategy than the practical worship of the Jews/Israel that exists among many Europoid MAPs.

[Anonymous_Lover]

You'd think different age of consents and the observable effects that they have on countries (or lack thereof) would be something people could look to for evidence that just raising the age doesn't really do anything.

You'll have multiple countries where the age of consent is 16, versus multiple neighboring countries where the age of consent is 18. You could look at the differences in different statistics — do the former countries have higher rates of teen pregnancy? Evidence of more widespread trauma? Worse STD infection rates? Worse crime rates in other areas such as adult rape or murder? Fuck, what about consistent poorer performing mundane statistics like employment rates and economic growth? Anything that you could stick on a graph and say "Look, raising the age of consent could have a positive impact in these areas!"

Usually you won't find any consistent difference between groups of countries with different ages of consent like this. People that grew up in a country where it was legal for them to fuck or get fucked at 16 typically aren't any different than countries where people had to wait an extra couple of years.

Yet despite the fact that you can look at, for example, the UK where it's 16 and compare many aspects to the US where it's federally 18 and see the UK outperforms the US on many statistics— and many would argue culturally the UK isn't quite as messed up as the US is just yet— you'll still find people pushing a need for it to be raised to 18.

This is because the age of consent isn't based on evidence, it's based on hysteria and feelings.

The age of consent in the US is actually federally 12. To be absolutely clear, there isn't a state where the aoc is 12, I think Hawaii and South Carolina were the last to have an aoc as low as 14 -- this was raised in the 2000s. Most states have an aoc of 16 or 17 -- 18 is actually the exception. There is a false impression of this that many people (including Americans) have given that the state of california has an aoc of 18 (Hollywood being located there) and the legal age to strip or do porn/possess porn of someone is 18 in basically 18 throughout the country. In this way, it isn't that much different than UK. And in fact is better in some respects given that posession of lolicon isn't illegal inherently due to SCOTUS rulings and the 1st amendment protects the free speech of pedos better than the British equivalent.

[Artaxerxes II]

Archives of Wikipedia and AgeOfConsent.com

https://web.archive.org/web/20250000000 ... nsent.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20041229070 ... of_consent

Present day (Wikipedia-reported) ages of consent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_by_country

These would appear to problematize the claim of AnonymousLover, that only Muslim countries have liberalized or fought off tightening age of consent laws during the intervening period (the 21st Century).

I'm not aware of any non-muslim countries where the age of consent has actually been lowered since the turn of the millennium, if anything its only gotten higher. To be absolutely fair, if Hina's reading of German law is correct, there is a recent addition to their age of consent law which makes sex between an adult and a minor down to 11 not inherently a crime. But the statute is so vague or open to weaponization that it might as well still be illegal in the current climate and this is assuming his interpretation of said law is accurate. A longstanding similar legal practice that left open a legal grey area for sex down to 11 was actually closed in France recently making the aoc a solid hard universal 15.

I can think of countries once lauded by MAPs for their lax laws and attitudes that have now gotten stricter and made the aoc higher: Japan, The Philippines, Mexico, Columbia (recently banned child marriage making the minimum marriage age 18).

Face it, Western Liberal countries and Christian Third World countries aligned with the West are handing out big Ls as far as MAPs are concerned. Apparently, even Lula is governing as a hardcore anti-MAP in Brazil despite proposing lowering the age of consent to 12 in 2002.

Outside of a handful of muslim countries I see no progress being made at the legal level. And, no, I'm not an advocate for Islamic theocracy in the West, nor do I think it likely, but this is a demographic that can be leveraged to help us attain victory in the West. What would be wrong with outreach to say, UK muslims?

This could not be much worse as a strategy than the practical worship of the Jews/Israel that exists among many Europoid MAPs.

I mean, there's Cuba with an AoC of 12 according to the Cuban penal code, and Russia + Belarus where technically owning CP alone isn't an offence since it's not mentioned in their penal code, but then again Cuba is a communist country whilst Belarus and Russia are deemed by the EU as too illiberal, so not liberal democracies.

[PorcelainLark]

“If you can get what you want in the Rules-Based Order of Freedom/Human Rights/Democracy of le Western (TM), why worry about MAP liberation?

I don't think they're mutually exclusive, Anonymous_Lover does.

Why not just do nothing and stop caring about what happens in the rest of the world?

I do care about what happens in the rest of the world. I care about more things than just being a MAP.

I'm sure we'll all find it very illuminating when you show us how great it is with the sex offender registry and all that.

I'm pretty happy living in Europe actually.

I don't have it in me to pretend to believe in Holocaustianity and liberalism. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.

I sincerely believe in liberalism, if Anonymous_Lover is actually a Muslim and not just LARPing because they think it will get them what they want, fair enough. It's still not something I can do.

In all seriousness though, it’s hilarious how you had to deflect his points (namely, that the current MAP strategy of begging for crumbs from the PMC that is losing out to Le Populists (TM) so far has been an abysmal failure)

What deflection? I said if they want to prove me wrong, they're welcome to it. Also I don't get why you always add the TM to populists, do you actually think they're good for MAPS?

and had to resort to “le blacks bad, m’kay”.

Muslim means black? What?

Truly a trained liberal lapdog.

FYI, I used to be a Marxist. I didn't just pick up liberalism because of following the herd. I got disillusioned with communism.