American MAPs should disown 'their' country

A place to talk about Minor-Attracted People, and MAP/AAM-related issues. The attraction itself, associated paraphilia/identities and AMSC/AMSR (Adult-Minor Sexual Contact and Relations).
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BLueRibbon
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Re: American MAPs should disown 'their' country

Post by BLueRibbon »

jeffychubchaser29 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 7:30 am
Fragment wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 7:14 am
jeffychubchaser29 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 4:04 am Meh...idrc what some foreign stranger has to say about me. You come across as a know it all. So from now on please ignore my posts and I'll ignore yours. You're irrelevant to me and I'm irrelevant to you. Idk about you, but I come to these boards to have FUN and make friends(btw political views should not be what determines a friendship), not argue politics. Have a great day sir.
Why are you even replying when you're not engaging with any of the points made and just randomly calling one of the mods a "stranger" (before going on to say you're here to make friends. Contradiction much?)

On what basis are you proud of your country?

(PS- this should probably get moved to the Politics and Debate sub-forum)
On what basis am I proud of my country.?
Cause I want to. Just like you want to hate MY country.
I'm done with this argument. I've said all I wanted to say. I pray to the gods y'all find peace and happiness.
I don't simply want to hate a specific country. I do so for the reasons I outlined above (and also due to some non-MAP issues, which aren't really relevant to this matter).

Edit to add: I don't ever want people to think they can't argue with me on the basis of being a mod. I'm quite happy to be criticized, but I will respond in kind.
Brian Ribbon, Mu Co-Founder and Strategist

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Outis
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Re: American MAPs should disown 'their' country

Post by Outis »

I don't think disowning a persons country solves anything though, if anything it benefits them. Besides, all countries are a mix of good and bad.

Personally I'm a big believer in democracy but don't think what exists in the USA or UK is democracy, I'm not sure we've ever really had democracy in the west and that is intentional. I mean Britain and European countries were ruled by monarchs and loyal Lords then there was rebellions and no one wants to give up wealth and power so they sold the public the dream that they could elect people to run the country, but those people have to work within a system so it's ordered. People's involvement in democracy starts and ends at the ballot box. For one day every 4 or so years they get to vote for someone to lead them, then they can f off back to all their problems. Even the options presented to them on that one day are carefully chosen, a few well selected options who after that day go back to work within the system of government. Wealth and power hasn't shifted to the people, just a dream that appeases them.

I mean, how many people here have been involved in theh process of shaping laws? the countries economics? housing and social strategies? decisions over going to war and who to arm? Citizens have no involvement which is the whole purpose of democracy, to democratise government.

America and Europe including Britain are the same thing today as Europe had 1000 years ago, a wealthy ruling elite making the rules. It's very little different to Russia or China, they just have different branding and push their own dream with different messaging but underneath the workings are near identical.

So I don't hate my country, I just see it for what it is, warts and all and recognise that other countries are the same. All we can do is live within it and try to make change even if that's just trying to get people to listen and care about real issues.
Keep every stone they throw at you. You've got castles to build.
The power of the people is stronger than the people in power.

To endaavor to domineer over conscience, is to invade the citadel of heaven.
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HumanBeing
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Re: American MAPs should disown 'their' country

Post by HumanBeing »

BLueRibbon wrote: Sat Jun 21, 2025 9:32 am There are still, shockingly, a number of American MAPs who continue to speak proudly of the country in which they happened to be born. They parrot tired old phrases about liberty and justice, as if these ideals had ever been intended for 'people' like them. Why? It could be a habit instilled via endless salutes and anthems at school. It could be pure fear, the imagining of a greater evil beyond its borders. It could be a desperate clinging to faint shreds of hope, like an abused dog that salivates at the feet of its evil master, whimpering in terror while deluding itself with the belief that just maybe it will one day get a pat on the head. But whatever the reason, this patriotism amounts to the same thing: the inexplicable, delusional support of one's own persecution.

Even America's extreme laws, with their utterly insane sentences, fail to truly illustrate the full extent of the madness to which MAPs are subjected. And while the British may have laid the groundwork in 1885 when they raised the age of consent and exported their puritanical model across the empire, it was the United States that took those new ideas and expanded and truly globalized them, creating the absolute hellscape under which we are all now brutalized, both in America and increasingly across the rest of the world.

It was the 1980s that marked the beginning of the full-scale moral panic in the US. The since disproven Satanic Panic led to a modern witch hunt, featuring crazed articles in the press and a brand new folk devil for the masses. America's fledgling psychology industry quickly exploited this new wave of hysteria, rapidly churning out a library of junk research on 'Child Sexual Abuse' that made no attempt to distinguish inherent harm from the much more common secondary harm caused by the puritan-derived aversion to consensual AMSC. The NAMBLA revolutionaries, rather than being taken seriously in what was otherwise a period of sexual revolution both in America and in Europe, were condemned as grotesque monsters who sought to inflict horrific harm on children. And thus, a new narrative of the villainous and soul-destroying pedophile was born, to be exported across the world along with the rest of America's vile cancer.

America has not yet criminalized mere attraction to minors, but that's likely only because the powers that be haven’t yet found a constitutionally acceptable excuse to do so. If the law could criminalize a MAP's inner life, their feelings, or their self-awareness, it probably would. The public would cheer it on, the liberal-minded all the while waving their rainbow and BLM flags and patting themselves on the back for being 'tolerant'. And given the extent to which the latest administration has violated the constitution unhindered, all it will take is a similarly-minded dictator - one who isn't a likely MAP himself - to actually go through with the arrest and incarceration of anyone who could be identified as being attracted to minors.

Even though admitting that you are a MAP is not yet illegal, and not yet a reason for abduction by the anti-pedo version of ICE, it is often considered cause for intervention without any credible accusation of wrongdoing. Merely disclosing your identity, or being suspected, is enough for someone to decide that a report must be filed, whether to a boss, a school, a therapist, a platform, or the police. It doesn’t matter if you’ve never hurt nobody and never committed an actual crime. Simply existing is seen as an act of evil, a moral aberration, a thing that needs to be killed or silenced.

Some MAPs, in a desperate attempt to salvage any slight semblance of connection to a society that seeks their brutal evisceration, try to cope with this oppression by aligning themselves with the very boots that stomp on them. A kind of Stockholm Syndrome, essentially. They tell themselves that if they stay quiet and follow the rules, or better yet talk about how they would never act on their feelings because that would be the absolute worst thing in the world, they might be allowed to squander a pitiful existence of loneliness and misery. And still, even with such monkish levels of sacrifice, it needs only the slightest suspicion, accusation, or possession of a questionably posed picture of a swimsuit model, for that life to come irreparably crashing down.

Some American MAPs defend 'their' country on the basis that other countries are the same or even worse, but that excuse doesn’t hold up despite their nation's best attempts at exporting its signature hysterical terror. The USA is not just another repressive country; it is the architect of MAP oppression and incarceration, crushing those within its own borders and acting as the most fanatical sponsor of similar policies worldwide. Being the brutish globalizing bully that it is, America remains less than content with any country unwilling to treat MAPs in the harshest possible manner. Through treaties, intelligence-sharing, trade deals, and diplomatic pressure, the US does everything it can to push foreign governments into adopting American laws, definitions, and punishments. It uses its dominance in tech, finance, and foreign aid to demand alignment. Countries that once had milder and more realistic approaches have been shamed, threatened, or paid into submission. The world is being manipulated into a mini America, under pressure, surveillance, and threats.

Nonetheless, the US remains the worst of the worst. In numerous developed European nations, the age of consent is set at 14 or 15, and legal frameworks such as that of Germany acknowledge adolescent agency in ways US courts could never imagine. Sentencing in virtually every country other than America is dramatically different, too. Penalties for non-contact offenses are much shorter, and alternatives to incarceration are routine. Life sentences for possession of images, many of which were pirated after being produced many years ago, is a uniquely and disgustingly American concept. Even the United Kingdom, arguably the birthplace of modern puritanism and now deeply hostile to MAPs in public rhetoric, almost never imposes long prison sentences for mere possession of criminalized images. When prison is involved, countries like Norway and Sweden maintain humane facilities for everyone, as opposed to the horrendous for-profit monstrosities operated by the US.

If you're an American MAP and continue to support 'your' country, take a step back. Don't grovel for love from your abuser. Don't support a nation that has funded and exported the most horrific forms of child abuse while throwing people like you in prison for looking at naughty images. Instead of feeling the urge to cheer for an institution that doesn't want you, out of a desperate and frankly pathetic desire to be a part of it, have the strength to stand up and speak the truth:

"Fuck America. The world would be better off without it."
I don't see how hating America or any other country will help our community, arguing about this kind of issues only It divides us even more and weakens us as a group, I don't care if the AoC or any other Anti-MAP laws came from America, UK or from an alien civilization, I only care about abolish them as soon as possible.

I respect your opinion about America and your desire to vent about it but we should focus on helping our community and nothing else, I'm fucking sick of reading useless debates about Palestine vs Israel, Anti-American vs Pro-American, etc.

We have real activists willing to help us behind bars and instead of helping them and organizing our community to fight for ourselves we spend most time arguing about useless shit.

I don't care if anyone here is Anti-c, Anti-American or Anti-whatever as long as we help each other.
Exclusive MAP
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Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus (Let justice be done, even if the world perishes) - Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor
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Puerto Lobos
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Re: American MAPs should disown 'their' country

Post by Puerto Lobos »

Oh yeah for sure fuck the U.S.A. It's embarrassing that anyone could call themselves free but then turn a blind eye to the endless atrocities that the nation and so many others represent. I would truly hope that nobody would so attached to the propaganda that they have been fed that they would rather turn on their own community than deprogram themselves. Then again, the U.S.A. is the poster child for anti-intellectualism, meaning many citizens have been convinced that it's more important to feel right than actually research the truth and be right.

Agree that disowning the country doesn't do anything to the nation itself, but I still think it's a good exercise to speak up about these things because it's a good way to build a general willingness to speak out for injustice, and it often exposes the willfully ignorant members of the community so that they can hopefully be helped or at least not be put into positions where they are empowered to spread false narratives.

No issue is entirely isolated, if the community is suffering by in large by oppressive tactics of the government it doesn't really make a different if it's directly a product of prejudice against maps or not. It's still suffering and should be healed when possible.

Stop believing. Start learning. Deprogram your mind <3
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Artaxerxes II
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Re: American MAPs should disown 'their' country

Post by Artaxerxes II »

Given how Trump has entered into a war with Iran, I don't think it would be wise to get American MAPs to publicly disown their own countries in forums available for public view, lest it gets taken by federal authorities as proof of sedition or grounds for monitoring over potential betrayal. America is a police state after all.

With that said, I agree with Ribbon in that MAPs should have no loyalty to the same post-WW2 liberal establishments in America and across the entire west to be frank, as these same liberal establishments are the ones that are responsible for modern pedophobia, its proliferation worldwide via the myriad of NGOs that they fund under the guise of child protectionism, and since the 1980s they've only gotten more repressive towards MAPs. I know Whig history sounds easy to digest, but MAPs would be better off by stop daydreaming about getting their needed Sorosbucks and EU aid and accept the cold reality: The liberal establishment would rather accept neo-nazis into their fold over MAPs at any given day.

https://forum.map-union.org/viewtopic.php?p=3998
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