Why do you tell yourself that kids can consent?

[msykm99]

I have to speak on the topic of when he mentions babies and how they cannot speak first. I like ages 5-10 so I must say anything below speaking age is crazy to me. Infant attraction is bizarre to me but unfortunately antis will look at us all the same. So speaking on ages that can speak I would like to give this scenario. Lets say we get to a point of first entry and the kid says yes even through the pain, thats how a kid can consent. I see alot of replies but none touch on this. I feel what im saying is very important. Kids can change their minds mid way but the fact that they can is what makes me believe kids can consent. As a man ive never been penetrated so I cant speak on the feeling but I can image that it can be painful at first. Btw this is at any age. So a kid willing to go thru this pain at a younger age is proof that they can consent. It might not take one day it may take a couple but if the consent is there we can make it through.

[JGHeaven]

When I was a child I had strong emotions and views of the world, it's patronising to suggest young people don't have the intellect or right to consent or not consent. People love to feel some level of superiority over others, that they have some higher perspective making them better to judge for others, but that is just ego and vanity, not reality.

Kids have strong views and emotions, stronger than adults much of the time, I know I did. The legal system thought is built by adults to serve adults, no young person has been asked to help shape the law or the world they live in. It's an abuse of position really but one that won't change until young people are given a voice and set of basic rights.

[ASpiritualMAP]

I've just finished reading a book called "The Trouble with Trauma." It's a push-back on the whole cPTSD expansion of trauma. It’s written by a child psychiatrist. The first suprising thing I learned, was Bassel van der Kolk didn’t work in child psychiatry.

One of the main points the book makes, is that the majority of interpersonal trauma studies are cross-sectional studies, and aren’t prospective studies. In other words, they don’t show people’s personalities before a trauma. They only study the after effects. This means they can never tell anything about causation. In contrast, prospective studies can tell the researchers about causation.

An obvious question would be, did the personality/behavior characteristics predate the trauma? Here's a video where the author explains his issues with cPTSD. I thought folks here would enjoy it. https://youtu.be/_8Nuavf-gPw

[PorcelainLark]

One of the main points the book makes, is that the majority of interpersonal trauma studies are cross-sectional studies, and aren’t prospective studies. In other words, they don’t show people’s personalities before a trauma. They only study the after effects.

That's really interesting, it fits with my skepticism towards the claim that experiencing CSA is what makes people into pedophiles.

[Worthless june]

Hi

I have not read all reactions sorry will do later im not a map but my upbringing was with use of me started age 4 with only suck pencils finger and small things yes there were also sessions were i was tied up i learned it was to help me etc ofcourse ar first it wasnt easy not going to lie but when it goes further i learned also that man became happy by doing things with me and well wasnt i born to make others happy i realised i was and i learned not to resist i just let them do there were also vids taken etc

I know society will call this wrong but before i noticed it wasnt morally accepted i didnt feel much about it not negative not positive sure sometimes i was tired or something but i always let them do so they became happy again before i learned it wasnt socially accepted i didnt feel weird or something

But well my upbringing was different anyway because i also had harsh punushments something what isnt socialy accepted too

[Worthless june]

I have to add i do believe man CAN be very caring sweet and be gentle so their children will feel good and they will learn the child to love the sexual part so they can grow

That part was missed in my upbringing in my upbringing it was more a teaching a duty something what was just part of life
And let me believe its for happyness of the man so thats what missed in my upbringing i wish i was learned to love it etc

But still i had no trauma of it or something thats because society seen it as wrong etc

I do have trauma of the punishments i had when young they were very harsh and i mean real harsh

The sexual part was just a duty and obeying it and it was fine

[Supermario]

If you ask a two year old if they want a jam sandwich or a chocolate spread sandwich they are capable of pointing at the jam sandwich.

That's why I tell myself that children have the ability to consent.

[Pegasus]

Children have the capacity to consent, and if they are given love, understanding, affection, and feel safe, then yes, they will give their consent. Always prioritize the child and pay attention to their reactions.

[Mod note - we don't encourage engaging in contact with those under the age of consent.]

[Jim Burton]

I do find the appeal to childrens' "enthusiastic consent" as a kind of savage wisdom rather hollow and self-serving, given the social context.

Ultimately, if we are permitting sexual contact between preteens and adults on the same "simple consent" basis as wanting cookies, or a particular flavor of ice cream, we are legitimizing the abuse of a power differential - that being the gap in knowledge w/ respect to the social fallout from adult-preteen sexual relations. This would be the case regardless of what immediately realizable power the adult has over the child, or vice versa.

[Learning to undeny]

I think no one has still pointed out the social repercusions of sex. A child cannot give informed consent to these because they don't know the complex consequences of the apparently inocuous act. For example, the expectation that children should have low sex drive, or the concept of a "virgin", or "innocence", or "shame".

I know, each of these concepts individually appears to be a hassle. But the idea that sex is just sex is just wrong. In every single society (correct me if there are exceptions), sex has a complex social meaning attached to it: marriage, relationships, rituals, power... We would all want a free society where sex is just sex, but it's simply in our heads. Sex will always have complex social consequences.