What is everyone's stance on Epstein?

[PorcelainLark]

Anyway, working with victims is doomed to fail. MAP attractions will be seen as a result of trauma. Which is not a good idea.

I disagree with this. I don't think MA is the result of trauma, and I don't think non-coercive statutory rape is necessarily harmful, however, denying sexual abuse occurs and pitting yourself against victims is a bad idea. Put yourself in the position of a person sexually abused by a priest or uncle, your community/family doesn't want to know and would prefer to sweep it under the rug a lot of the time, because it makes them uncomfortable. That makes victims want to expose "pedophiles" (being equivocal about MAPs and sexual predators); we MAPs want to be able to live openly too. I'd argue if we could live more openly, we'd be more accountable to the communities and families we belong to, so there would be less sexual abuse. We don't necessarily have to be enemies with victims.

[bnkywuv]

I'm not a fan of the trafficking at all, but the people who are freaking out over the cannibalism and such sounds like highly neurotic and mentally unstable people desperate to "protect" children. Extreme antis like this are clearly unwell and very likely highly dangerous to children and MAPs alike.

[oolhlh2]

Anyway, working with victims is doomed to fail. MAP attractions will be seen as a result of trauma. Which is not a good idea.

I disagree with this. I don't think MA is the result of trauma, and I don't think non-coercive statutory rape is necessarily harmful, however, denying sexual abuse occurs and pitting yourself against victims is a bad idea. Put yourself in the position of a person sexually abused by a priest or uncle, your community/family doesn't want to know and would prefer to sweep it under the rug a lot of the time, because it makes them uncomfortable. That makes victims want to expose "pedophiles" (being equivocal about MAPs and sexual predators); we MAPs want to be able to live openly too. I'd argue if we could live more openly, we'd be more accountable to the communities and families we belong to, so there would be less sexual abuse. We don't necessarily have to be enemies with victims.

The main factor that drives the trauma is that the abuse is unwanted. If a toddler were to have sex then there is a high chance that they will get trauma from it as they weren't mentally aware enough to even know that they were having sex.

Our ability to be more accountable won't change the status quo, that children will in most cases be harmed by having sex with adults.

[OnionPetal]

You want to know what I think about Epstein?? Oh, let's go.

• I think it's strange that a maths teacher from New York quickly amassed a half-billion dollar fortune and was known by celebrities all over the world, despite having done very little to earn such renown.

• I find it curious that Ghislaine Maxwell (the woman seemingly always visible in the frame of photos with Epstein) is the 'favourite' daughter of a man reportedly connected with UK, Soviet, and Israeli intelligence agencies.

• I am sceptical that Epstein let all of his victims go free, knowing that they would almost certainly 'talk.'

• I suspect we will never know the full egregiousness of what Epstein and his clients did as part of his sex trafficking operation.

• I am quite confident that the most egregious evidence was destroyed years ago.

• I believe that both Biden and Trump withheld (and will continue to withhold) the full unredacted Epstein files, to protect their associates.

• I do not think Epstein killed himself at the exact moment that the security cameras failed, while under 'suicide watch' the day before a scheduled court hearing that was likely to incriminate accomplices.

• I do not think that the world's most famous celebrities and politicians visited Epstein's island just for the 'great barbecues.'

It is clear that Epstein did not act alone, all by himself. But I don't believe that any visitors to his island will ever face justice for their covered-up crimes. And one of the most frustrating aspects of this case for MAPs is the obvious double standard... Someone merely viewing pixels online can get sentenced to hundreds of years in prison (yes, this has actually happened). Yet the elites can engage in literal sex trafficking, and they all cover up for each other so they walk free.

It's 'Rules for thee, not for me!' Minor attraction is deemed by society as one of the most heinously unacceptable offenses in all of humanity. 'Worse than murder!' some will say. But when there's a list a mile long of famous elites known to have flown on the Lolita Express, the media presenters just clutch their pearls for years, and nobody ever goes to jail, because the government is busy 'losing' evidence, and they decide not to prosecute anyone.

[CantChainTheSpirit]

A fair trial was never going to happen with so much political involvement. It's politicians doing some things and helping the media to fling mud at their oponents. What was the actual crimes? We'll never really know.

[ReArm!]

I'll sume it up in one phrase: People hate Epstein because he was a pedophile, I hate him because he was a billionaire, we're not the same.

[Artaxerxes II]

A nothingburger blown out of proportion. Although the focus on vague sexual crimes over the possible Mossad honeypot aspect reminds me of how conservative media was obsessed with Hunter Biden’s sexual life over his play-to-pay corrupt scheme with Burisma back when his laptop was top news thanks to Rupert Murdoch’s NYP.

[DANAT4T]

Can anyone tell me how Virginia Giuffre is doing these days?

[JGHeaven]

Well, he's not here to defend himself and many of the women were paid sex workers in their 20s at the time but are being portrayed as innocent children at the time. Paid adult sex workers now seeking compensation because, well, why not, he's just paying twice now.

Was he a nice man? I don't know, I have heard people speaking out to defend him, people who knew him, saying he was a very kind and friendly man with a large sexual appetite and an approach to business where he liked to entertain to help do business deals. That does happen, there are plenty of highly paid sex workers today getting paid by rich and powerful men. They're hardly victims, they're making a lot of money and are very shrewd business woman. Get paid $10,000 for one weekend or work a dead end job for $2,000 per month? Younger women do earn more, it's the same in porn, and there will be women under the age of 18 using their sex appeal to earn big money and live a glamarous lifestyle. It's easy for puritan men to tut and say they're corrupt or victims but that's very stretching the truth. I know someone who worked in a store and she was approached by a man who offered her a load of money to come away on a boat for a weekend, with wealthy businessmen. She's earn a lot for that weekend, would have a lot of fun and meet some very wealthy and powerful men. She actually considered it but said no because she was engaged and she felt it was too unusual. Apparently he explained that they don't use sex workers because the men who would be there prefer more natural women who are there out of choice, not professionals. She was a very attractive girl, she would have been in her early 20s at the time and she has said she sometimes regrets not going since she broke up with her fiance soon after and has been struggling financially ever since.

I think he was most likely a rich and powerful men who paid sex workers or like with my friends story, well paid non-professionals to attend parties and events. They would have paid well and the girls would have gone there through choice. Some under 18s were caught up in it and then because of some of the powerful people who attended, it turned political and became this strange thing we're seeing today where all the women who attended were victims and it was a pedo ring on a pedo island. That's almost certainly all nonsense and it's almost certainly no different to happens today in similar things all over the world today, on yachts and islands. If my friend had gone and earned a lot of money then years later she was told she could say she was a victim and make hundreds of thousands of dollars, I wouldn't be surprised if she agreed and took the money, I mean he's dead anyway so why not?