babies and teens are all capable to consent, the only thing that needs to change according to age is the action

[Nopi Balki]

Okay....so some of you MAPS come up with the MOST wild shit ever...no baby can consent IDFC what anyone says.....

I mean their are arguments that "why should sexual play be any different than any other sort of touch except one has to do with genitals and the other doesn't so why do we stigmatize any genital contact in the name of learned trauma" And I do admit I have some of that learned disgust as well but....

What are you so mad for man?

I never said I was mad, just stating how I feel on the matter.

But i mean what do you see wrong of an adult being attracted to a baby?

[Theendoftheline]

What are you so mad for man?

I never said I was mad, just stating how I feel on the matter.

But i mean what do you see wrong of an adult being attracted to a baby?

Idk I'm just biased...babies are the most disgusting things to me personally anyway, just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....I do not find that personally attractive at all.

[Nopi Balki]

I never said I was mad, just stating how I feel on the matter.

But i mean what do you see wrong of an adult being attracted to a baby?

Idk I'm just biased...babies are the most disgusting things to me personally anyway, just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....I do not find that personally attractive at all.

I respect is not ur attraction, but about this "just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....", there is much more than that, when they pick up an object or toy and look at it with curiosity, when they see something simple and they giggle so happy for it , at that age they are very affectionate and they wanting to be close to someone and hug them, i see that and am in love man, sure parents experience that same emotions as me just that for me is that plus the sexual attraction, so that attraction though rare is not something too out of this world

Have you been a parent yet or never gonna try?

[Theendoftheline]

But i mean what do you see wrong of an adult being attracted to a baby?

Idk I'm just biased...babies are the most disgusting things to me personally anyway, just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....I do not find that personally attractive at all.

I respect is not ur attraction, but about this "just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....", there is much more than that, when they pick up an object or toy and look at it with curiosity, when they see something simple and they giggle so happy for it , at that age they are very affectionate and they wanting to be close to someone and hug them, i see that and am in love man, sure parents experience that same emotions as me just that for me is that plus the sexual attraction, so that attraction though rare is not something too out of this world

Have you been a parent yet or never gonna try?

i dunno man i just cannot get behind that. I think you are confusing fraternal feelings with sexual desire somehow.

[MAPallmylife66]

I never said I was mad, just stating how I feel on the matter.

But i mean what do you see wrong of an adult being attracted to a baby?

Idk I'm just biased...babies are the most disgusting things to me personally anyway, just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....I do not find that personally attractive at all.

I'm not personally attracted to infants either, however I recognize that there are different categories of MAPs, who have a wide range of attractions, that also include babies. I'm not about to judge someone, just because they're not attracted to 6 through 10 year olds like I am. We're all social outcasts in the real world, so lets not ostracize each other on here, when this is literally one of a very small handful of places where we can actually express this part of ourselves.

[Theendoftheline]

But i mean what do you see wrong of an adult being attracted to a baby?

Idk I'm just biased...babies are the most disgusting things to me personally anyway, just blubbering masses of fat and drool that shit and piss themselves all day....I do not find that personally attractive at all.

I'm not personally attracted to infants either, however I recognize that there are different categories of MAPs, who have a wide range of attractions, that also include babies. I'm not about to judge someone, just because they're not attracted to 6 through 10 year olds like I am. We're all social outcasts in the real world, so lets not ostracize each other on here, when this is literally one of a very small handful of places where we can actually express this part of ourselves.

Fair enough

[Enbyfictionwriter]

This is such an interesting thread!

I am curious , between all the different types of maps out here - some proC, some anti - many or most maps will abstain from doing sexual things with kids (whether it’s fear of the law, losing your position in society, or the risk or doing harm )….and maybe just fantasize instead.

(AI CP could be extremely harm reducing in this way, and would benefit so many kids and maps/adults).

So- what kind of stuff do people think is ok to do? Or would be ok to do in a more perfect world? Penetrating a baby is a clear example of “no,” while full on sex with a teen would be closer to a clear “yes.” So what else is in between?

Where do we even draw the line between what is “sexual,” and what isn’t?

-Cuddling
-Kissing
-Making out

-Pleasing a child in a gentle way when they clearly enjoy it and consent - rubbing, or oral (?)

-Asking a child to please an adult (this feels stickier for me, as in a healthy relationship it is generally about a mature adult caring for a kid, and kids aren’t here to meet adult needs)

-And a thousand other possible manifestations. I think part of the reason some people fear maps is they automatically assume anyone who has this identify wants to grab a child off the street and force them into full penetration.

But what about the full rainbow of LGBT? Some people are hetero but ACE. Or solosexual and only want to play alone sexually.
-
I guess for me it’s hard to know for sure what it would look like in a more healthy society. I think being comfortable with nudity would be a start- we would all be nudist, whether it was sexual or not. And sex wouldn’t need to be hidden - from kids or anyone else. And kids would be free to have sex with themselves or others. And adults would be free to…do what exactly? I’m not totally sure, but it’s probably not black and white is it?

I know that even today young kids will touch themselves and even try to hump a caregivers leg, if they haven’t grown up in a repressive environment. Some kids are curious about adult bodies and maybe even turned on and curious, but this is where it could get tricky (in a more perfect world). If a child wanted to explore an adults body, I guess that would be amazing for them! And the adult, but I worry about how to manage the fact of it becoming about the adults needs at some point, and not the child’s.


And of course I believe the harm from most “abuse” these days is the social construct and people’s response; not the sexual acts themselves (unless violent). So even today I think following the law is critical to protect ourselves and to protect the kiddos.

[PurpleHouse]

It is so hard to think about what would be objectively right for everyone, and refreshing to see willingness to discuss it. I dont really know where I'm going with this but we will see what comes out.

Are we all just trying to get what we want? Yet I can see people thinking about avoiding harm. "Normies" wouldn't want to consider that MAPs would be wanting that. Perhaps we all would say things should be more liberal in our own AoA range!

Two things I'm trying to work out.
What would be the ideal world?
And what could we really achieve?

I think intimate relationships can be seen as something "special" even if we make more things acceptable. I'd say a sexual relationship would include things that are more private and intimate and not made super public. And there will always be lines that can't be crossed. Even if MAPs could seen as acceptable, it is still possible for some relationships to be abusive. Just as there are awful adult-adult relationships and practices out there.

I sometimes wonder if I could live as a "practising" MAP even if it were legal. Maybe because in the world now there is no safe and legal way to get there and I can't bring myself to believe a younger person would be interested. "Normals" might find it hard to believe but I care about the young both inside and outside my AoA. Just like a teliophile can care about other adults and have different types of relationship with others. And I think professional boundaries should be there in teacher-pupil relationships etc. Just like a doctor and adult patient should keep boundaries. Which creates the question of how a MAP and YF would "meet". But in the "ideal" world there might be openness to more types of relationship.

Society needs to learn that MAP and offender are different things. Just like a homo/hetero/bi/pansexual could be offender or non-offender.

To make things "better" would be hard one politically. The public doesn't want it. I think the only way might be to make it about protection. Stop the issue of child protection being political and make it an area of study and collaboration between social workers, law enforcement, academics. Look at ways to manage the real issues, and that way discover the wider world of MAPs and how MAPs and offenders are different groups with only a bit of overlap.

Going onto CP. I think I would be very uncomfortable with CP even if legal. Perhaps because I think there is a degree of abuse (trafficking or coercion and so on) behind the scenes even in legal material. I think also we need to be careful because once material is out there it's permanently there. So while someone might be able to consent to an action or a relationship at one time, they can change their mind and end those things. Imagery is different. It is permanent once it is distributed. So I am not too keen on it being legal to create/distribute. However maybe possession or consumption should be dealt with more rationally, a bit like with drugs. Help the person, not punish, especially for first offense. But we need to be clear that the "problem" is the material, not the sexuality. The vilification of AI material, fiction, etc suggests the sexuality is the real problem. That must change. I get that it is hard to tell if something is AI, or if fiction is based on something true, but we can be sensible about it. Current non-pornographic AI images are still quite comically unrealistic quite often. I understand the concern over how the AI is trained. And that is worth deeper consideration. Fiction is clearly fiction... are we murders if we watch a murder mystery?

What about relationships/contact. Firstly i dont think a MAP relationship would be the same as Adult+Adult. Because some parts of relationships work best with two partners in similar life stages. Things like living together, financial connection, having children and even aiming to be together long-term so on work best with two partners in the same life stage. A MAP+YF relationship would have to be a different model. Some suggest MAPs are often natural mentors and maybe the answer is some sort of mentoring model but as i suggested before make it outside of normal professional relationships so that they hold healthy boundaries. Which is not the same as saying it couldn't happen in that "ideal" world.

We would also have to consider that there would be unhealthy relationships and have strong views on consent and understanding. A MAP+AAM relationship might even be seen as a healthy way for these things to be learned.

And if we are creating this world from where we are now, there would be danger to the MAP and the AAM from the Antis. Or even a fake AAM who is really trying to "hunt" MAPs. Safe spaces might have to be created. Maybe even safe communication apps.

We know that "normal" people think intimacy is important in a healthy adult and could be helpful stress relief. Does that switch flip on at age 18? And can a MAP help to offer that in a healthy way? Where people have mental health or behavioral problems could a mentor offering more actually be helpful? Could a MAP+AAM connection help with self esteem and reduce all sorts of problems that come up during younger years, as long as people aren't conditioned into shame?

AoC in some countries is higher in "relationship of trust". Maybe that is a useful model. Make it low in general but high if there is any sort of professional relationship and not allow with immediate family. And it might work differently at different ages.

[Enbyfictionwriter]

Purple house, this is such a well thought out reply! I hope more folks chime in as well, it’s truly interesting.