Potential AAM Activism

[WavesInEternity]

Here's a thought: I increasingly believe that the MAP movement would benefit from a few activist AAMs of the same intellectual fiber as yours truly (I was writing articles defending the legality of lolicon—and smoking weed—at 13, started attending university at 16, etc.).

In light of the fact that many self-professed AAMs somehow find and join this website and similar ones, if we ever notice that a highly credible and intelligent AAM is actually participating on this website, it might be useful to offer mentorship ([joke]let's call it "intellectual grooming"... I mean, why not [/joke]) within our community with the goal of having them support our cause from the other perspective, namely a so-called "participating victim" who rejects the systematic denial by society of the validity of their subjective experience.

What do you think, friends?

[PorcelainLark]

Here's a thought: I increasingly believe that the MAP movement would benefit from a few activist AAMs of the same intellectual fiber as yours truly (I was writing articles defending the legality of lolicon—and smoking weed—at 13, started attending university at 16, etc.).

In light of the fact that many self-professed AAMs somehow find and join this website and similar ones, if we ever notice that a highly credible and intelligent AAM is actually participating on this website, it might be useful to offer mentorship (let's call it "intellectual grooming"... I mean, why not ) within our community with the goal of having them support our cause from the other perspective, namely a so-called "participating victim" who rejects the systematic denial by society of the validity of their subjective experience.

What do you think, friends?

It's hard to know if someone is actually an AAM or if it's either a MAP LARPing or catfisher. It's been an ongoing question on this site.

[WavesInEternity]

It's hard to know if someone is actually an AAM or if it's either a MAP LARPing or catfisher. It's been an ongoing question on this site.

I know, I've read the thread you're referring to (along with most of the forum).

I do admit that I'm surprised anyone would find this environment to be interesting for LARPing purposes or catfishing. There isn't anything overtly sexy going on and no reasonable possibility of interacting with users one-on-one privately, including offsite.

Nevertheless, I believe that it's not unreasonable to expect that some of them might be the real deal, and I'd also think that one demonstrating a genuine interest in serious activism would be much less likely to be here for hidden purposes.

In all cases, the essence of my argument regarding the potential usefulness of AAM activism remains.

[PorcelainLark]

I'd say I'd have three reservations outside of whether people are actually AAMs:

1. Outside of Generation Z and younger, I don't think people deny the existence of AAMs.
2. Those who would deny AAMs exist would attribute this activism to grooming rather than coming from authentic experience.
3. The readers of Mu are mostly MAPs, so in order to get to a broader audience, it would likely involve coordinating off-site activities

I'm not strongly opposed to the idea, though.

[WavesInEternity]

Most people might not deny the existence of AAMs, but they do deny the slightest possibility that it might be positive for them to act upon their desires. In the same way, few people deny the existence of MAPs. I'd add that the absurd situation with Generation Z and younger is one reason why existing AAMs might want to be outspoken in that respect. It's going to keep getting worse otherwise.

I'm sure that many would attribute such activism to grooming, I even explicitly included a tongue-in-cheek reference to that fact in my original post. It's evidently something that would need to be addressed, in the same way my teenage self relentlessly had to emphasize the fact that my illicit enjoyment and defense of "obscene" pornography was not due to some outside "corruption".

Overall, my point is a more general one, and in hindsight, perhaps I should have made this thread broader: the key idea is that we desperately need more allies that can make the case for AMSC from a non-MAP point of view. I used the example of AAMs because 1) like us, they're self-interested and thus more likely to be motivated; 2) I noticed their purported presence here; 3) I personally have a unique history as a former controversial young activist, although I won't delve into the details for security reasons.

(Edit: One thing I'll mention about my past activism is that when we fought back against the push for banning lolicon in Japan, it's not people like me—the actual folks who enjoy "obscenity", i.e. have every issue of Comic LO and love dark, twisted, rapey erotica involving imaginary little girls—who won the fight. It's allies among anime and manga fans in general who feared a slippery slope effect.)

[WavesInEternity]

I'm currently going through the NewgonWiki and realizing just how much more I've got to learn on these topics. It's rather disheartening to realize how successful the censorship of MAP discourse has been in our society if I, an actual MAP with a high level of intellectual curiosity and open-mindedness, took this long to find such resources. Essentially, it only occurred when I very specifically and explicitly researched pro-legalization/pro-contact views. In a sense, I guess the censorship had reached into my own mind, since I was previously unwilling to even contemplate such thoughts. This is true cultural hegemony (not that I'm a Marxist, but it's a very useful concept).

Anyway, I'm writing into this thread because I just found the page about Youth Involvement, which I think is amazing. The world needs more of that. But how can we instill the desire for such political activism in those who might be our most natural allies (as they share the same basic self-interest as us) when our voices are systematically silenced and their feelings are pathologized?

[Olivia2012]

As an AAM, I think this could work, but u fail to realize there are actually a lot less AAM's than u think. Every other one I've met is just a victim of CSA who thinks the way they do as a trauma response. Also unrelated but I rlly hate that term "intellectual grooming" it might just be the grooming part but that sounds bad

[Jim Burton]

Demographically, it will be small, sure (older minors are around 1:20 with adults), but as a proportion of that 20th, I would expect more to have a solid preference for adults than adults having a solid preference for minors.

The bigger question, is what motivation do they really have to be political, or interested in anything bar short term relationship goals?

I could only see this developing organically out of some broader youth rights or youth liberation movement, and from that point, there may be collaboration potential. It would be highly provocative.

[WavesInEternity]

As an AAM, I think this could work, but u fail to realize there are actually a lot less AAM's than u think. Every other one I've met is just a victim of CSA who thinks the way they do as a trauma response. Also unrelated but I rlly hate that term "intellectual grooming" it might just be the grooming part but that sounds bad

Even just a single one who's sufficiently determined and vocal about it could make a difference, Olivia. Political change is a strange thing. Also, as Jim mentioned, age of consent reform would be best introduced as part of a broader youth rights movement.

Also unrelated but I rlly hate that term "intellectual grooming" it might just be the grooming part but that sounds bad

It was a joke. Of course "grooming" sounds bad, that "badness" is what the term is intended to imply when it's used to replace "seduction" in cases where the age gap makes the relationship invalid. The point was that any AAM who finds himself here and is being taught the essentials of youth rights activism by MAPs would be accused of being "groomed" by us, even if it doesn't lead to any actual sexual contact whatsoever.

If you're personally interested, I can start a thread: "Youth Rights Mentorship for AAMs".

[WavesInEternity]

Every other one I've met is just a victim of CSA who thinks the way they do as a trauma response.

I thought this deserved a proper reply.

In our current society, AMSC (Adult-Minor Sexual Contact) is simply unthinkable for the majority of the population. Even those who might have such thoughts as part of their overall sexuality will ignore or repress them unless their preference is overwhelming... and as you rightly pointed out, true preferential AAMs, like exclusive or near-exclusive MAPs, are few in numbers. It is an unfortunate reality that AMSC is currently linked to CSA due to the self-perpetuating system (self-fulfilling prophecy made real) of blanket prohibition, which leaves no other choices to exclusive MAPs but lifelong abstinence or offending, and doesn't address the necessity of teaching children to say "yes" and "no" within a comprehensive sex & relationship education.

With CSA victims, we find another phenomenon entirely: the fact of AMSC has been forced upon them. This means that their sexual thoughts will often be altered towards adults. That said, I believe—although it is a mere hunch, not a belief inferred from scientific evidence—that many AAM victims of CSA would greatly benefit from a loving intimate relationship with an adult skilled at listening and respecting their boundaries. This might be what they're unconsciously looking for. The sad fact is that they tend to end up in abusive relationships with men (or women) that display personal traits similar to their abuser's. Whether they want it or not, they're likely to associate the idea of adults desiring them sexually with the patterns of sexual abuse, even though most MAPs aren't abusers.

Ultimately, I think there could be a better middle ground between the current repressive laws and the recent past where CSA was ubiquitous: children should gradually be made aware of sexual matters from an early age (starting as soon as they can understand abstract concepts and emotions), but sexual activity should never be pushed upon them. From age 12, they should have the right to initiate sexual activity, including with an adult outside of their family, but adults wouldn't be allowed to make the first move on anyone under 16. Adults would, however, be allowed to self-identify as MAPs openly. That's the current immediate reform proposal I have in mind. In an ideal world, more flexibility would be preferable than strict age thresholds, given how people mature at (sometimes very) different rates, but I'd say that would be for a later stage.

If society is to change so as to view consensual AMSC as an ordinary and harmless part of life, what must first happen is for positive instances of such relationships to exist on a sufficiently large scale. Thus, the law must change just enough to allow a large number of MAAs and AAMs to find and love each other (for instance through a dedicated dating website).