Question for female pedophiles

[PorcelainLark]

As a bi man, I've always wondered if this is just a bisexual thing. I've noticed that bi men are typically more comfortable with androgyny than straight men, for obvious reasons. I hadn't considered that it may also be a map thing as well.

I've also speculated that MA may be proportionally more common amongst bisexuals than heterosexuals or homosexuals, since children tend to be more androgynous. If non-binary people have both masculine and feminine characteristics, a child is non-binary in the other sense (i.e. lacking masculine and feminine characteristics).

In addition to an androgynous style, I also feel that I have a strong maternal instinct. My approach with children - and, to a degree, most social situations - is gentle and didactic, like a mother or an elementary school teacher. Fittingly, I've been described by friends and family as a "mom." It's in large part due to my interest in androgyny and my maternal instincts that I've struggled in the past to identify my gender, only to end up right back where I had started. It would be quite a relief to learn that even half of these experiences are shared among amab maps.

Taking a cue from Cantor, I do think MA is a kind of eroticized nurturing tendency.

I think it will become much easier to test this theory when maps start meeting in person. If your "gaydar but for maps" truly exists, then you'll have me clocked in half-a-second.

My personal favorite example is Micheal Jackson. He too had a certain air of androgyny that has always resonated with me.

I often think about how, retrospectively, it's so clear that homosexuality had a major influence on things like the style of glam rock; and I wonder if there is a style we will eventually recognize as majorly influenced by pedophilia. Michael Jackson feels like he might convey that style.

[WavesInEternity]

If non-binary people have both masculine and feminine characteristics, a child is non-binary in the other sense (i.e. lacking masculine and feminine characteristics).

Interestingly, one of the things I love about girls in my preferred age range, especially 8-12, is that I feel they tend to be more authentically feminine. I've always found it to be a different and more appealing kind of femininity, less filtered, less calculated, more heartfelt. Some adults have it too, but it's very unusual, especially among post-feminist Western women, who seem to no longer take pride in their femininity and even feel some shame and anxiety about it, especially when it comes to the possibility that they may look like little girls. It's as if their performance of femininity had to involve an emphasis on "adultness", which I've always found diluted its genuine expression.

I'm not into tomboyish or androgynous young girls. I always prefer the more girly ones.

I often think about how, retrospectively, it's so clear that homosexuality had a major influence on things like the style of glam rock; and I wonder if there is a style we will eventually recognize as majorly influenced by pedophilia. Michael Jackson feels like he might convey that style.

Hehe, I don't like Michael Jackson much. Then again, the only genre of music I really listen to is shoegaze, along with a little bit of dream pop, post-rock, alt rock, prog rock, and Baroque thrown in the mix. I remember seeing one of my favourite musicians sharing artsy watercolours of naked little girls on his Facebook account and thinking that we clearly had more in common than I thought.

[PorcelainLark]

Interestingly, one of the things I love about girls in my preferred age range, especially 8-12, is that I feel they tend to be more authentically feminine. I've always found it to be a different and more appealing kind of femininity, less filtered, less calculated, more heartfelt. Some adults have it too, but it's very unusual, especially among post-feminist Western women, who seem to no longer take pride in their femininity and even feel some shame and anxiety about it, especially when it comes to the possibility that they may look like little girls. It's as if their performance of femininity had to involve an emphasis on "adultness", which I've always found diluted its genuine expression.

I'm not into tomboyish or androgynous young girls. I always prefer the more girly ones.

For me it's the opposite, I love tomboys, especially in ages higher than my ideal AoA (to a certain extent a tomboyish woman is an ersatz for a young girl, to me). Recently I came to realize I might have lacked insight into my age of attraction based off of reading about the difference brought about the effects of the adrenarche and gonadarche. I used to say my AoA was 8 to 10, but if there's an objective basis, I think it's 6 to 8. Not to say people generally lack insight into their own attractions, just something I consider when I'm working on a theory. Even if this theory proves to be partially true, it probably doesn't apply to hebephiles (since puberty is when secondary sexual characteristics develop and differentiate). I would imagine culture/imprinting plays some role, like you said you don't like pubic hair; is that a general characteristic of hebephiles or specific to you? I'd like it to be cultural, because it would make everything a lot neater, though obviously I have to be open to the possibility it isn't.
My inspiration behind a lot of this comes from gestalt psychology and Merleau-Ponty's Phenomenology of Perception. I think I'm looking for a kind of sexual "prägnanz." I wasn't happy with the impression I got from his discussion of the "male gaze," i.e. that it's something socially conditioned and that by perceiving a woman as sexual we are making some kind of choice, so that there's a moral responsibility to try to reduce the sexualization and objectification of women. While I acknowledge culture plays a role in sexuality (e.g. nun fetishes can't have any natural basis, because it's a fetish about a cultural practice), I want to say there's an innate sexual perception that no amount of cultural engineering or discipline can get rid of. There has to be a natural core underneath the cultural elements, that makes us aroused and/or perceive things as sexual.

Hehe, I don't like Michael Jackson much. Then again, the only genre of music I really listen to is shoegaze, along with a little bit of dream pop, post-rock, alt rock, prog rock, and Baroque thrown in the mix. I remember seeing one of my favourite musicians sharing artsy watercolours of naked little girls on his Facebook account and thinking that we clearly had more in common than I thought.

Did he paint them himself?

[WavesInEternity]

For me it's the opposite, I love tomboys, especially in ages higher than my ideal AoA (to a certain extent a tomboyish woman is an ersatz for a young girl, to me).

There really seems to be just as much variation in tastes among MAPs than among straight or gay people.

Recently I came to realize I might have lacked insight into my age of attraction based off of reading about the difference brought about the effects of the adrenarche and gonadarche. I used to say my AoA was 8 to 10, but if there's an objective basis, I think it's 6 to 8.

I determined my age of attraction using... empirical evidence and research into what little girls really look like, especially in sexual contexts. I'll leave it at that. The important part is that I never took into account any a priori theories. Actually, I was really surprised to learn about hebephilia and see how closely it matched my own preferences.

I would imagine culture/imprinting plays some role, like you said you don't like pubic hair; is that a general characteristic of hebephiles or specific to you? I'd like it to be cultural, because it would make everything a lot neater, though obviously I have to be open to the possibility it isn't.

I think it's me specifically. I don't see how it could possibly be cultural since I had that strong reaction the very first time I looked at porn online at 10 years of age. It certainly felt visceral and instinctive; I vividly remember how the absence of pubic hair was one of the first things I learned to search for, on the first day. I hadn't seen any female genitalia since I was a small child and played with one female friend in particular (for the first 4 years of my life). I also remember how, in adolescence, I was genuinely scared at the thought that I might be deeply repulsed by my girlfriend's genitals if she didn't carefully remove all hair down there—fortunately, that was never an issue: all my girlfriends already shaved or depilated.

My inspiration behind a lot of this comes from gestalt psychology and Merleau-Ponty's Phenomenology of Perception. I think I'm looking for a kind of sexual "prägnanz."

I don't know that concept, and I'm not familiar at all with Merleau-Ponty. If you ever write more about its relevance to minor-attraction, I'll gladly read it.

I wasn't happy with the impression I got from his discussion of the "male gaze," i.e. that it's something socially conditioned and that by perceiving a woman as sexual we are making some kind of choice, so that there's a moral responsibility to try to reduce the sexualization and objectification of women. While I acknowledge culture plays a role in sexuality (e.g. nun fetishes can't have any natural basis, because it's a fetish about a cultural practice), I want to say there's an innate sexual perception that no amount of cultural engineering or discipline can get rid of. There has to be a natural core underneath the cultural elements, that makes us aroused and/or perceive things as sexual.

I agree. I've long argued that there is something inherently "objectifying" about male sexuality, which is tied to its well-documented reliance on visual cues. I also believe that the fact that our society is vilifying this intrinsic visual part of male sexual desire is one of the reasons why our society has drifted toward the pathologization of normal male sexuality.

As I mentioned in this post. I think fetishes such as my own for schoolgirl uniforms are likely to have both innate and culturally conditioned aspects. Here's another example though: what about thigh-high socks? Literally no girl I know ever wore them (before my own girlfriend did following my request), and I didn't even know they existed before I noticed them in anime in early adolescence. I immediately found them fetishistically attractive. How could that be culturally conditioned?

Did he paint them himself?

No, he was showcasing one of his favourite visual artists. I should find the name again, it was really pretty (and hot)...

[PorcelainLark]

I determined my age of attraction using... empirical evidence and research into what little girls really look like, ... The important part is that I never took into account any a priori theories. Actually, I was really surprised to learn about hebephilia and see how closely it matched my own preferences.

I based my original ideal AoA on the Tanner scale. The empirical observation came first, the introspection/theorizing came afterwards.

I think it's me specifically. I don't see how it could possibly be cultural since I had that strong reaction the very first time I looked at porn online at 10 years of age. It certainly felt visceral and instinctive; I vividly remember how the absence of pubic hair was one of the first things I learned to search for, on the first day. I hadn't seen any female genitalia since I was a small child and played with one female friend in particular (for the first 4 years of my life). I also remember how, in adolescence, I was genuinely scared at the thought that I might be deeply repulsed by my girlfriend's genitals if she didn't carefully remove all hair down there—fortunately, that was never an issue: all my girlfriends already shaved or depilated.

It could be because you hadn't see female genitalia with hair. When I was a kid, I often saw women and girls naked. For a while, I had no idea what female genitalia actually looked like because I initially had only seen adult women with pubic hair. Consider that our knowledge of anatomy isn't a priori, for example, Henry Darger drew girls with penises, I assume it was because he lived in a society that was very prudish about nudity and so had never seen women or girls naked. Likewise, how we analogize the opposite sex to our own sex through imagination: e.g. female ejaculation, castration anxiety.

I don't know that concept, and I'm not familiar at all with Merleau-Ponty. If you ever write more about its relevance to minor-attraction, I'll gladly read it.

Very simply, the idea is that there's a basic visual configuration we have; like when you sketch something you might compose things out of circles, or break down an image of an object into the 2D shapes it's composed of. I'm thinking of things like the waist-to-hip ratio (e.g. the hourglass figure) and the shoulder-to-waist ratio, as "gestalts", primitive shapes or forms of the body that, in this context, we find appealing.
At an abstract level, you can think of Merleau-Ponty as a critic of naive realism (compare with Wilfrid Sellars and the Myth of the Given). Our perception isn't an unmediated collection of sense datum, it's organized in a particular way. However, Merleau-Ponty is much more concrete; he's analyzing how we perceive specific things, observing the process of observing. While I don't agree with everything he says, Merleau-Ponty has been very helpful to me.

I agree. I've long argued that there is something inherently "objectifying" about male sexuality, which is tied to its well-documented reliance on visual cues. I also believe that the fact that our society is vilifying this intrinsic visual part of male sexual desire is one of the reasons why our society has drifted toward the pathologization of normal male sexuality.

I guess we're largely on the same page, although I'm cautious, when presenting the argument to someone who disagrees about this stuff, of using terms like "normal" or "natural", because people seize on the opportunity to say "just because it's natural, doesn't mean it's right" or "what is normal?" as a way of resisting the conclusions. I tend to use the term "hardwired," in order to short-circuit (pun unintended) that process.

As I mentioned in this post. I think fetishes such as my own for schoolgirl uniforms are likely to have both innate and culturally conditioned aspects. Here's another example though: what about thigh-high socks? Literally no girl I know ever wore them (before my own girlfriend did following my request), and I didn't even know they existed before I noticed them in anime in early adolescence. I immediately found them fetishistically attractive. How could that be culturally conditioned?

I suppose if the cultural practice had to do with how the body was presented or drawn attention to. For example, short skirts are often part of uniforms, which display the legs, thigh-high socks draw attention to thighs, and so on. So that fetishes, while symbiotic, can be broken down into their hardwired and cultural components.

No, he was showcasing one of his favourite visual artists. I should find the name again, it was really pretty (and hot)...

Fair enough.

Anyway, maybe we should make a separate thread? This has gotten quite off-topic.

[eveeve]

Hi! to get kinda back on topic just a little, i did have a question for my cismales as a female pedophile, if given the chance to be in a relationship with a female pedophile would you do it? (i don’t mean that in a “i’m looking for someone” btw) or are you strictly only attracted to minors and not someone who is not a minor but is attracted to minors.

Also another thing as well I don’t remember who said it somewhere on this thread but someone mentioned how women who are attracted to minors, that attraction comes from being a mother and maternal things and stuff like that. I do agree and unfortunately I don’t wanna say too much because I know it’s against the rules to say what I wanna say but yeah I do agree a lot of comes from that as well and also like boosts your attraction levels if that kinda makes sense.

[WavesInEternity]

Anyway, maybe we should make a separate thread? This has gotten quite off-topic.

Can you start a new thread? I can't think of a name. I'll respond to you there.

Hi! to get kinda back on topic just a little, i did have a question for my cismales as a female pedophile, if given the chance to be in a relationship with a female pedophile would you do it? (i don’t mean that in a “i’m looking for someone” btw) or are you strictly only attracted to minors and not someone who is not a minor but is attracted to minors.

I personally would love to be friends with a female pedophile with similar tastes as myself, and it could contribute to her attractiveness for romantic purposes, but for me to have an erotic interest in her, she'd still need to be attractive in other respects, most importantly neoteny. My longest-time former romantic partner was an autopedophile who was most attracted to the thought of herself as a girl in exactly my ideal age range. She wished she had dated the adult me as a young adolescent. This entailed that she loved the same lolicon as I did, and in many ways, it was similar to having a pedophile partner... but better.

In fact, studies show that autopedophilia is also common among male pedophiles, which strongly suggests than the two phenomena are closely linked.

[Meiwaku_Mailing_Girl]

Even though you didn't direct to questions to me, I want to add my input.

Thank you.

By the way, anyone else reading this who feels like answering those questions is welcome to.

I think secondary sexual characteristics make people less attractive, especially if they're female secondary sexual characteristics. I like boys to have small shoulders and be smaller than me. Even being the same height is unattractive to me. I'm only into boys.

Interesting. I take it boys are more attractive before the gonadarche for you?

Your theory about female pedophilia being related to homosexuality is interesting. There have been times in which I've pondered about my attractions. Even though I consider myself to be 100% heterosexual, especially when it comes to romance, some of the features a boy has that I'm drawn to, many would consider feminine, like for example: a small petite frame, a smooth hairless body, a high pitch voice, big pretty eyes with long lashes, zero muscle definition, in need of protection, and emotionally sensitive at time. With all that being said, I am massively turned off by feminine girly traits. An effeminate boy is as unattractive as a typical girl. I may prefer a soft boy, but he's still has to be boyish. I couldn't muster a nibble of romantic feels for any female or effeminate boy.

What would you say you are most attracted to? Boys after the adrenarche but before the gonadarche? I wonder sometimes about whether MA is subliminal.

Now getting back to the point, I remember reading a news report of a woman TikTok influencer having a crush with on a 12 year old boy and kissing him. Someone in the comments of the news article said she was a lesbian. At the time of reading that comment I found it annoying. I always found it aggravating when people said boys look just like women and being with a tomboyish woman should satisfy a "boylover" but I do think there is some truth to that statement. Certain adolescent boys can resemble woman. However I don't think this appeals to prepubescent boys. They don't resemble women. Prepubescent children are facially distinct.

I think part of the issue is that sexual perception hasn't been studied sufficiently scientifically. There's a lot of discussion about sexualization as something socially constructed, but seemingly less about what makes us perceive certain things as sexual and other thing as not. We have some rudimentary ideas about things like the waist-to-hip ratio, but not a more general theory of sexual perception (that gives an idea of what heterosexual male teleiophiles are attracted to, but it doesn't explain how that process of sexual perception is occurring; presumably there's something different happening for heterosexual female teleiophiles, homosexual teleiophiles, etc.).
I was speculating about different configurations like men being directed towards neoteny by one component and indicators of sexual maturity by another component; or that's there's something in teleiophile women that is attracted towards a shared characteristic between adult men and to children. I'm thinking of it in quite simplistic terms, like how a compass points North or how certain atoms bond and not others.

I don't think having a lower sex drive would make a woman less likely to be pedophilic. I agree that pedophilia in females probably often manifest differently.

Fair enough.

Yes I am primarily attracted to boys before gonadarche. I prefer boys before adrenarche. To put it simply, early childhood. Somewhere between 4 through 7 are my favorite ages physically. I like that they completely lack mature features. I also really like their personalities at that age, although my romantic prefer might be for boys slightly older.

[hugs]

Hi! to get kinda back on topic just a little, i did have a question for my cismales as a female pedophile, if given the chance to be in a relationship with a female pedophile would you do it? (i don’t mean that in a “i’m looking for someone” btw) or are you strictly only attracted to minors and not someone who is not a minor but is attracted to minors.

Good question! I would love to have a relationship with with another maa, though women my own age aren't my first choice. Instead, I'm very attracted to women quite a bit older than me. Although I'm a map, I still have somewhat of a mommy kink, curiously enough.

[Enbyfictionwriter]

Hello all,
Sorry I am a little late to this thread, but I hadn't logged on in a bit, so I am just catching up. This is all so fascinating, thank you for being open and posting it! It is so hard to be closeted in our everyday life, especially when such a huge chunk of what many of us feel is love, care, affection. I have seen that echoed from many authors here (and absolutely no judgment if this *doesn't* describe your attraction) - that the love and urge to care, nurture, and just honestly adore our children is what is first and foremost. Yes I also get very turned on by bodies and all the parts, lol, but I can fantasize about that at home, and that need is met. Eveeve, I connect so much what much of what you wrote here.

I am nonbinary, and a lot of how I came to identify that in myself is my response to children. My response is very very "female," and I truly feel my energy inside is "mama." When I was a teen, 13-14 I first starting noticing my strong attraction to kids. Its like a magnet, yes? And they were attracted right back. No, this doesn't mean we went on dates and had sex and stuff- it doesn't work like that. It works like taking an interest in them, hearing what they have to say, and playing with them. And sure, going home and masturbating- alone- while fantasizing. Not just because breaking the law, and the consequences, are terrifying - but for me, hurting kids is even more scary. Because I truly love them. I didn't know what a nepi was until I found this site, but thats strongly what I am, AoA is right around 3-5 or so, but I love all kids. I can also feel strongly aroused - in a very loving way- with a baby, but its so different. I dont want to do anything "sexual" with a baby, and their tiny genitals are not attractive. But love, care, and if it were possible I think breastfeeding would be amazing. So I love what someone else on here wrote, it has evolutionary value. We want to adore and care for children, make them happy, and help them. Sex and genitals is so secondary to them (but they are beautiful and we want to eat them up ). Us folks who care for children are an important part of the human tribe, because we HELP children grow and in turn reproduce (like in the evolutionary "Darwin" sense, we are contributing to reproductive success in that way).

Also, yes my sex drive is super high, I can masturbate twice in the morning and twice at night if I have time. But its not like having sex "over and over," its more ongoing, like one orgasm doesn't satisfy fully. And sex and love ARE deeply interconnected, we are told by our culture otherwise. When we fantasize about our kids, its not just 'masturbation candy,' its something much deeper and important! Eroticism is not the center of things, but it is AT the center, near it, deeply interconnected. And yes, stuff females naturally do doesn't blink an eye, but when a male does the same- people freak out and scream boundaries and pedophilia- an intense double standard. So just identifying as nonbinary or "passing as female" can allow you into spaces and behaviors that otherwise raise flags. Coming out as nonbinary helped me immensely in this way.